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Heya, Stelek!
I'm attending a local, small 40k tourney (16 players) in a month, and I wonder if you could give some critique on the SM list I'm planning to take there. I doubt I will/can make any drastic changes in this time (unless I have the models or such), but even pointing out the weaknesses will be appreciated.
Army size has to be 1500 points or lower, and there are some additional restrictions...
- max. of 1 same HQ choice
- max. of 2 same elite, fast attack and heavy support choices
I've been slowly acquiring the models to play the 'best of SM' some day (I wish I had known of it the day I started this hobby bit over a year ago!), and so my list has some resemblance to it. I don't have MotF nor sniper scouts yet. Besides, lately I've learned to like the psychic hood when playing against CSM. The sternguard veterans are there to give the librarian a ride in their razorback, and to be bit more effective than a partial tactical squad.
The list (1500 pts):
Librarian [Null Zone, The Avenger] @ 100 pts
Sternguard Veteran Squad (5) (2x heavy flamer, 2x combi-melta, 1x bolter) + Razorback @ 195 pts
Dreadnought (2x twin-linked autocannon) @ 125 pts
Dreadnought (2x twin-linked autocannon) @ 125 pts
Tactical Squad (10) (combi-melta, flamer, multi-melta) + Rhino @ 215 pts
Tactical Squad (10) (combi-melta, flamer, multi-melta) + Rhino @ 215 pts
Tactical Squad (10) (combi-melta, flamer, multi-melta) + Rhino @ 215 pts
Land Speeder (multi-melta, heavy flamer) @ 70 pts
Land Speeder (multi-melta, heavy flamer) @ 70 pts
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons) @ 85 pts
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons) @ 85 pts
There will be 5 games and the missions... well, there's couple standard rulebook missions/deployments and couple not so. Especially one of them is just not very tournament-compatible. I could send you a battlerep afterwards if you want(?). Planning to take pics too.
-Tanthie
PS I hope you can answer this before the tournament is held. lol
PPS Thanks for the idea of using the aegis defence line autocannons to make 'rifleman dreads'. I had been wondering for a while where I could get the weapons, besides ordering from FW. Also, they drew alot of attention from people at the store I'm playing at ;). Here's a picture of one them, if you're curious how they look. (Me and cameras... *cough*)
http://tanthie.deviantart.com/
Reply:
I think your list is pretty solid. I'd probably downgrade the Razorback to a Rhino and pick up a 3rd combi-melta for that Sternguard unit.
Personally, I think you could do without them and the 3rd tactical squad, and 10 Thunder Shield Termies on foot would probably do you better.
Re: Rifleman Dread, you're welcome. :)
I checked your link, btw, and noted this:
So far, I've liked their performance very much, excluding the times when one of the dreads has immobilized while facing towards stupid direction and couldn't shoot anything for the rest of the game. (This has happened twice.)
What makes you think the Dread cannot rotate when immobilized? Other than 4th edition perceptions?
Home Army Lists Space Marines Warhammer 40k » Tourney List Q
Wednesday, November 18, 2009
Tourney List Q
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Stelek
Labels: Army Lists, Space Marines, Warhammer 40k
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10 comments:
Hehe, I use a similar list to the one Stelek suggests at 1500 at so far it has been very effective. Don't underestimate foot/teleporting termies.
I've seen a couple of places where you've told people the wrong rules lately:
Page 57 of the rule book: "pivoting on the spot alone does not count as moving...(however, immobilised vehicles may not even pivot)."
So immobilised dreadnoughts do get "stuck" facing in one direction. The pivot that they perform in the shooting phase is still pivoting, so they would still be unable to perform it.
Page 67, under "destroyed-wrecked": "any models that cannot disembark are destroyed." So indeed an entire unit is not destroyed if some of the models would be unable to disembark.
Willyd: I'm not sold on Dreads being unable to pivot, not the way you are thinking--I think some Dreads have turret mounted weapons and others do not. Turrets can still rotate freely. I was trying to spark a discussion, but failed.
As far as disembarking--the disembark rule itself contradicts that 1 liner (that isn't even in the disembark rules, either). In my view, when GW presents two different rules talking about the same thing--you take the more restrictive. It's the safest path.
That clear things up?
I am a big fan of Rifleman dreads. I think the list is solid, but I would kit out the tac squads differently. I dropped combi weapons awhile back. I keep my tac squads to either 205pts or 210pts.
So if you drop the combi's, a tac squad and the stern's, you could buy 10 ass terms and get the libby term armor with s/s and have the libby join the terms. Should be the same point total.
My 2 cents. Which in a few years will be worth 0.000005 cents. YMMV.
Also, why does pressing enter move the whole comment down and the cursor up? Will the paragraphs be in an inverted order now? O_o I guess I'll see that in a sec.
The reason for me thinking an immobilized dread is unable to rotate is as willydstyle stated; an immobilized vehicle is unable to pivot, and I haven't found any rule for dreads being an exception. After being immobilized, dreads have a 45° arc of fire, or at least that's how I've played.
Dunno about the assault terminators. Losing one tactical squad worries me slightly. Also, how should they be used? Keep them in a one big squad and footslog/deep strike them where the trouble is? Shame I have only 5 th/ss termies yet, can't try them out.
I'm glad to hear you think the list is "pretty solid." Now I have an 'approved by Stelek' stamp on the list. :D
Guys, here's the simple reasoning:
Please define a turret for me.
In the rules.
Go ahead, quote me the 'turret' rule and I'll laugh at you.
Stelek, not sure if you're being smug here or not, but there's obviously not a 'turret' rule. The rulebook defines 'turret mounted' weaponry, but that does not affect walker rules, immobilized or no. All walker-mounted weaponry counts as hull mounted weaponry for line of sight and line of fire. If a walker is immobilized, by rule, he cannot move or rotate during the movement phase. Due to the nature of walker shooting(pivot to face), you could theoretically pivot up to < 45 degrees to face an enemy that you choose to target. The problem is any unit outside of that range of your weaponry(say, directly behind your immobilized dread), cannot be targeted(because it is out of the dread's LoS), nor pivoted to face...because you can't move.
It's the exact same rules analysis that you use to interpret the Chaos Dread firing frenzy rule. I don't see how there's any ambiguity here.
So, no rules quotes then.
You need a quote? Here's the only one that's relevant:
"When firing a walker's weapons, pivot tjhe walker on the spot so that its guns are aimed at the target (assume that all weapons mounted on a walker can swivel 45[degrees], like hull-mounted weapons) and then measure the range from the weapon itself and line of sight from the mounting point of the weapon and along its barrel, as normal for vehicles." BRB p.72
Like I said before, why Dreads can't fire behind themselves is the same reason as your views on Chaos Dreads and firing frenzy. I agree with your viewpoint on Chaos Dreads, and think you have no leg to stand on with this ruling.
For your enjoyment, I created a framework for the debate here:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/11/debate-dreadnoughts.html
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