So, here are my random thoughts on the tournament.
The 5x5 System.
I think overall it worked, but I think some of the secondary objectives failed. What worked in my limited playtesting did not work so well. Recovery, Take & Hold, Sabotage. I need to rework those a bit. Everything else seemed fine as many KP and Objective related points were scored. John S made an excellent suggestion, a checklist for the scenario--like 'got this, check', how painting scores are done. Which I think is a good idea, and I'll incorporate it into the system.
Now the tough part, critiquing play and lists.
I'll keep it brief, as the overall mistake level was pretty low.
Josh I: Lots of mech, nowhere near enough mech-busting. The small Death Company and WH additions, while understandable, were imho mistakes. It's great to soak up lots of fire on those units, but in the end--you need to crack open tanks and kill the juicy gubbins inside. Not being able to do that reliably cost you, as you showed much improvement in your tactical skills as compared to the first tournament.
AJ: Again, lots of mech--nowhere near enough mech-busting. Gearing up to flatten enemies in CC is great, but your army looked more like a BT army than a SW one. Not your fault really, it's very hard to get a proper SW army (as GW does not provide you the tools to do so). The same basic building mistake Josh I made, also cost you. I hope you don't take your abberation of a game against Aaron as proof of anything other than luck plays a huge part in the game--he had the list to crush you very badly, and could never connect. I'm not downplaying your skill in the game, as you (rightly so) took advantage of the dice going your way and won that game.
Aaron: Lots of mech busting, but dice seemed to drown his anti-tank army from the get go. That kind of Vulkan multi-melta and tri-las Pred fire should kill tanks reliably, but did not. Not really a fault, just what he (and others) pointed out to me (and what I saw). I would have personally been quite upset with my army performance in such a 5E centric environment, one should not fire so many shots and accomplish...nothing, turn after turn. Game after game.
Jimmy: Lots of mech busting, and mobility. Only fault was not fleeing to gain position for a shattering flank blow. Oh and inability to make saves for command squads. =|
Josh W: Has a fine Tau list. I can't stress this enough: Concentrate fire until threats are removed. I could not figure out Josh's target priority for the life of me, and I did not understand the movement of vehicles and kroot. One turn speed bumps do not serve the greater good. You need several, to allow you to bleed the enemy until they are destroyed. Suffice to say, I think if Josh could get more games in he would be even more proficient with the Tau (in a tournament setting) and as things are, probably end up getting even fewer games as a result. lol How one goes from completely too lucky to not rolling average when the difference is 'tournament' vs 'friendly' is beyond me. Yet, all year it's been like that. Fixing his own dice, I suspect. ;)
Will: Should have brought two LC Terminator units and ditched the Chaplains. You just cannot make up 500 points in characters and hope to prevail when everyone else has 500 points elsewhere--your Chaplains are no Kantor/Lysander combo, that's for sure. Still, with more practice and a more fine tuned army, Will would have done much better.
Clint: Had a very balanced force, able to hit at range and close up. CC and shooty, mech and non-mech. Used all of the elements in the army to achieve the mission goals. Only weakness in the list is the general lack of mobility of the Sternguard once they drop, but you made it work by sucking people in.
Edwin: While I still think his army could have used a bubblewrap (most notably to defeat Jimmy) in the end Edwin suffered the same fate as Aaron. Even with good dice rolls, the wheels came off almost immediately. I don't think any vehicle squadrons survived turn 1 unscathed, and many were crippled by turn 2. Not a good thing when you have 4 squadrons and they are integral to you army. I think the only in-game mistake was starting on the board with some but not all of the army against Jimmy, if all of the guns had been there I think things could have gone differently. That one charge you never got, decided the tournament for you and Jimmy imho.
Kyle: Stay in your Land Raiders until you can deal significant damage to an enemy army. There's nothing wrong with delaying a charge from turn 1 to turn 2 (or 2 to 3, as the case may be). Going from a 'maybe' charge into one unit to a 'auto' charge into multiple units is what makes your army such a nightmare. Other than that small quibble, I couldn't really find fault.
My overall impression was I've NEVER seen so many high quality players with such excellent armies in one place before. I really had no idea what everyone was bringing to the final event, and I was impressed with what showed up--very nasty 2500 point lists that would frankly roll most of the planet in any environment.
Hats off to all of you, despite my short (and hopefully, kind) criticisms all of you played very well. It's a rare day when I see the dice be the largest decision maker, as the competition and army builds were all 9-10's (out of 10) across the board. Well done!
Home My Views Tournaments Warhammer 40k » Mind Game Final Tournament Thoughts
Saturday, November 21, 2009
Mind Game Final Tournament Thoughts
By
Stelek
Labels: My Views, Tournaments, Warhammer 40k
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
11 comments:
Lol. Play me in a friendly game. Your dead. All in need is Smart missle systems. (Seriously, no joke. Everything you have will be dead.)
Play me in a tournament or team game. Odds are in your favor.
As a result like you said, not many people like to play me. :-P
I don't mind playing you. Goblins + High Elves = Lotta laughs. ;)
Maybe I'll get around to finishing my Orks up, we can give your Tau a whirl. You don't have AV14, right? You wouldn't take Decoy Launchers on Hammerheads, would you? :\
><span>Decoy Launchers</span>
I really hope you meant "Disruption Pods" and it's just too early, or else I am going to have to totally rethink how I view either you, Tau, or Orks. :(
I meant Decoy Launchers. They shut down Ork Lootas vs Hammerheads. Everyone who doesn't know this, sit in the corner.
I don't know if I have said it enough, thanks Andy and John for running a great tournament and thanks to all the participants for contributing to a great time.
Hopefully this was a successful show that you can play VERY competitive lists and tactics and still have a good time.
But the Lootas can still shake/stun the Hammerhead (which Tau have no defense against) and blow its weapons off... I guess I'm just not seeing it. I mean, yeah, 5 pts is cheap, but you're barely getting anything out of it- to be honest, there are plenty of times I'd take Immobilized over the other results on the glancing table.
You're welcome Jimmy. :)
Puppy: Correct, so let's analyze the numbers.
Lootas that get average shots are rolling 30 dice.
10 hit.
1.x will glance.
Of those glances:
1-4 are shake/stun, which you can do nothing about.
5 is weapon destroyed.
6 is immobilized.
When you get the 1 in 6 immobilized result, you can force a re-roll...which will on a 1-4 be a stun.
So the majority of the time, you are shaken/stunned.
Occasionally you'll lose a weapon, but it's better to not be immobilized against Orks (they tend to crush you in CC if you are immobilized). Yes, being stunned sucks ass (it's the same death sentence) but that's better than being immobilized and weapon destroyed until you are dead, isn't it? It takes how many rounds of shooting to produce a weaponless hammerhead?
Assuming 'average' dice rolls, it takes 3 full loota units 2 rounds of shooting to take off a weapon.
Let's see if I'm right.
15x2x3=90 shots.
30 hit.
5 glances.
Of those 5, 1 will be immobilized or weapon destroyed.
Repeat.
15x2x3=90 shots.
30 hit.
5 glances.
Of those 5, 1 will be immobilized or weapon destroyed.
Now you add in disruption fields, and those lootas lose half the glancing hits.
So of the 1 glance that could be a 5 or 6, if it's a 6--you can force a re-roll, making them do nothing but stun you a further 66% of the time.
See? It's not necessarily about ever shooting the Hammerhead once you've been stun-locked by a loota unit.
It's about forcing the Ork player to commit at least one Loota unit per turn to neutralizing each Hammerhead.
They need to be beyond lucky to actually kill one in the course of a game.
I've fired all of my Lootas at a Hammerhead for four turns before finally taking it down--meaning, it was immobilized AND weaponless. Not actually dead.
So 45 lootas + 4 turns = 3 damage results.
Being stunned all game doesn't mean much when the rest of the Tau army is ripping you up.
In the end, you realize you can probably only stun-lock a Hammerhead and consider your other targets, and fire at easier things.
It's like firing Rokkits at Monoliths. Really? Are you Sisyphus today? ;) <span style="visibility: visible;"><span style="visibility: visible;"></span></span>
I can see the numbers, but I'm still not seeing much benefit, at lower point levels at least. (I don't get to play 2K+ as much, so...) You're trading a Immobilized result for Stunned or Weapon Destroyed chance 1/3 of the time, which is a shoddy deal. On average, you're taking a Stunned hit each turn anyways, so you're not really benifitting much there, and the additional Weapon Destroyed means you're going to lose all your guns quicker (since you only have the Railgun and SMS to give up), thus upgrading it to Immobilized anyways. It really seems like yes, it technically is beneficial, but I'd rather be spending those five points on... well, just about anything. Target Locks for my Piranhas/Broadsides/Shas'el. Another Kroot Hound. Upgrades to my Devilfish. A marginal improvement in survivability for one unit seems like a poor use of those points.
If the Ork player is stun-locking a Hammerhead after he's already removed its Railgun, he's making poor decisions anyways. The Lootas' guns are much better put to use against other targets (killing suits by weight of fire, downing Piranhas if they aren't already, basically anything.)
Your math and logic are both faulty.
The railgun rarely dies, and when you are already being stunned (the whole point, which you seem to have noted yet missed--bad logic there) the reason you'd let them blow up your Hammerhead instead of forcing them to shoot it turn after turn is...you'd rather YOU spent 5 points on some ostenstibly better gear, and free up the enemy lootas 225 points to shoot something else?
Talk about a shoddy deal, for...the Tau.
The Ork player would be delighted to knock out your Hammerhead as quickly as possible and move on to other targets. So would everybody else, imho.
>the Railgun rarely dies
Wait, what? How would this not be the first thing to happen when you take a Weapon Destroyed hit?
Yes, turning an Immobilized hit that will kill you into another mystery hit is, strictly speaking, a better deal- most of the time it turns into something non-permanant, but the numbers are much worse when you haven't taken any other Immobilize/Weapon hits yet- turning a lone Immobilize hit (when you don't have anything else on you) into a random something else is barely beneficial- getting a weapon destroyed hit I would argue is worse (since you're losing your main gun) and stunned is worse on any turn past the first or so, since it pretty much guarantees they're going to charge and wreck you.
><span>you'd rather YOU spent 5 points on some ostenstibly better gear, and free up the enemy lootas 225 points to shoot something else?</span>
We're talking about marginal utility against a single unit in a single army. For the other 99% of situations where the Launchers are doing absolutely nothing for you, the 5 pts spent elsewhere is pretty much guaranteed to be superior. I don't like the opportunity cost- even as small as it is- because the upside is similarly small. Maybe at 2K or 2.5K where you have a lot more points to spread around it's another matter- as I said, I don't play at those values as often because of the way local tourneys tend to run- but at low values those 5 pts probably mean dropping something else meaningful, and I just don't see the utility from it.
I think you're drastically overstating the DL's case- sometimes, when a bunch of Lootas are shooting you, yes, it will possibly save you. When they have already gotten three Immobilze/Weapon Destroyed results and are rolling a fourth one. It makes you less likely to be stuck somewhere (good) and more likely to be unable to fire (bad).
Post a Comment