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Hey Stelek,
You guys are the best, really. Keep up the stellar work. I've been busy lately but I've had time to get some games in with my Orks. No pictures at present since my folks decided they like my camera more and have jacked it. I've just posted the links to the reports themselves on my blog, hope that's ok. Incidentally, would you consider it worthy of a linky on your site?
Hopefully it shows you the sorry state of affairs we're in locally. I'm not entirely sure what I can do to improve the situation beyond stomping on them until they figure out their shit isn't working. They're awfully hung up on how awesome Orks are, so I'm going to try to host a series of "workshops" if you will to show them exactly how to stop Orks and why they are mediocre at best. While doing that, I'm going to be building up a variation of your Best Of Space Marines or Tau or IG, haven't really decided yet. The tricky part is that they have the "scrub" syndrome down pat, decrying cheesy armies and going so far as to limiting named characters at the next GT (also, Best General goes to the person with most battle points + 2x Comp! WTF!) Any ideas on how I can change things for the better without coming off as some arrogant asshole that nobody likes to play (you know, you :P I keed, I keed)?
Thanks
-Chumberbum
Reply:
Play IG with 3 Eradicators, 3 Hellhounds, a couple tarpit platoons, and a bunch of autocannons and hell, tell them it's tailored to beat them and beat them badly. Then ask them why Orks are so awesome if they can't kill the Eradicators which are eradicating them? lol
Don't forget some melta units to pop any BW or punish Nob bikers. Cleaning house on Orks isn't that difficult if you TRY to kill them.
What do others think of this? Have any advice for Chumbalaya?
I don't mind linking to your blog, ahh what can I call the link for you? Getting my blog rated porn by including your actual title as a link isn't on my to-do list. ;)
19 comments:
for cleaning up orks with IG...
Eradicators are nice. Even Vanilla russes kill 'em dead.
Hellhounds are gold vs orks. I also like the idea of hydra squadrons to mow ork trukks and boys down.
if you can ally in a WH celestian squad in an immolator, you'll have extra 12" move and burnination fun.
Tarpit: 2-3 10 man squads with Autocannons, GL's and a commissar.
tear 'em up an watch 'em throw excuses.
Blackjack and Hookers is totally family friendly, just look how nice Vegas is! B&H suffices.
The problem with Orks is, I'm one of the only people who plays them and I continually wreck face. I'll see if I can convince some IG players to give it a shot, I think coaching them through beating me is my best bet.
I'm new to this hearts and minds thing, I just want to play some games without feeling guilty. I'd much rather have something to learn from my batreps than "don't run shitty armies".
I'd suggest you make a better Ork list, then beat it, proving that you can beat a so-so Ork list isn't really going to prove anything.
Clay
That Smurfs player gets Frank-luv for having a tooled-up Techmarine in his army. I don't care what anyone says, Techmarines are cool :D
Yeah taking an IG list and curb-stomping that abortion of an Ork list doesn't really tell us anything new. Wake me up when we stop indulging ork players during amateur hour.
Why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of mob rule with their loota units?
*sniff* That's my Ork army :P
*sniff* That's my Ork army :P
It's not very good, just the best I can manage without spending a ton of cash on my fun army. My local group is having difficulty with it and Orks in general, hence my original question.
Tell them to run more Techmarines. They're the key.
I'd say your best bet might be trying to talk them through it. I don't know how it works with you/your area, but usually I try to have a post-game run-down of what both sides did and why, and if there was anything that confused me with 'em.
I'd think Hydras + Hellhounds = weeping orks. Bring a little melta, and/or Eradicators, and worst yet? Maybe some Battle Psykers, but that depends on how many Lootas they see per squad + their ability to wound them.
And, of course, melta in case you see any Battlewagons.
Chumbalaya pardon my hyperbole it's not THAT bad but the flaws in the list sound like an economic issue not a strategic one so you're partially excused. They are glaring weaknesses though.
You're still running trukk boyz and loota units less than 15 which is fail. Rest of the list actually solid although it looks like you're running some choppy units which I also wouldn't advise.
The marine list looks vehicle light. I don't see anything really scary like LR or Predators either although a whirlwind is pretty sick until the lootas get a hold of it.
Oh come on Nash, fearless Lootas don't do anything to Eradicators. Gnash and grind their teeth maybe, that's about it. lol
They don't which is why I consider Deffkopta's pretty much mandatory in every Ork list I play. They are effective anti Russ tech. Too bad they don't work on Land Raiders.
And don't work against good IG players, or that simple yet-auto-kills-all-ork-armies list I wrote. Took me 3 seconds.
Oh yeah, I have Trukks because my 4th Battlewagon isn't built yet. Lootas are in smaller increments because 15 just cost too damn much, take up too much space, and die like anything else. With smaller units I can divide my fire (no more sinking 45 shots into 1 Rhino) and avoid having 1 good round of shooting run them off the board, now it takes at least 3 separate units to run them off.
It's not really meant to be a killer list, because Orks don't do it very well. I <3 Battlewagons, Lootas, and Meganobs. That's what I bring. Deff Koptaz are a fun gimmick, but hopefully people will get wise to it, running bubble wrap is all it takes to make those Koptaz a big fat point sink.
IG just have the Orks' number, no two ways about it. They bring so much firepower, transport nailers, melta, ordnance, templates and so on that a well built/run IG list will stomp mine flat. I wish somebody would bring one, but it's just Battleforces and Russ Squadrons all day.
I try and go through all the weaknesses and how to build a solid army or at least use theirs better. Unfortunately, it's in one ear and out the other while they drool over how awesome Monoliths and Chaos are. /facepalm
<span> "Lootas are in smaller increments because 15 just cost too damn much, take up too much space, and die like anything else."</span>
Um no. A loota unit of 15 is fearless even if your opponent drops some LRBT pies on them for the first round of shooting. A loota unit of 9 has a much better chance of running off the table after that barrage.
If you think 15 is too pricey then just run a unit of 5. Or 3x5. When they run off the table at least you're only losing 45-60 points instead of over 100.
If you run 15 your opponent needs to commit to killing them and will still probably fail at it unless they focus fire over the course of the entire game. They may take initial losses but will still be fearless and ensure another round of shooting. If they only focus on lootas that means they aren't focusing on the rest of the list.
"<span>IG just have the Orks' number, no two ways about it. They bring so much firepower, transport nailers, melta, ordnance, templates and so on that a well built/run IG list will stomp mine flat. I wish somebody would bring one, but it's just Battleforces and Russ Squadrons all day."</span>
I consistently defeat IG lists sporting AV 12 spam. This includes Valkyries which get blown out of the sky by my lootas. The vaunted heavy flamers on just about every guard vehicle are usually a non-factor because I blow them up before they get close or simply turn it into a long range shooting match. If you try to lunge forward with hellhounds and the like you're getting assaulted by killa kans or rammed by battlewagons. The ground platoons get crushed by boys...in a shooting match..and then assault. Mech Vets are torn up by rockitts. IG is a solid codex but that's really not the one that I fear. Highly mobile lists are difficult and Land Raiders can be frustrating, but sit back and shoot lists? Orks will outshoot them.
15 Lootas are Fearless, but then you have to fit them some where, hope they don't die and sigh when they fire 45 shots into a Rhino and wreck it 4 times. 225 is just too much for that. Smaller units will run sooner, but they're easier to place, cover more ground, and can engage more targets.
It doesn't take much to kill them off. That Eradicator will, well, eradicate them. Markerlights can reduce cover saves and a Hammerhead can drop a pie plate on them. Hell, enough heavy bolters will bring them down to a manageable level.
Lootas can dish it out, but they suck at taking it and cost an arm and a leg for a Fearless unit.
Those huge Loota squads can only knock out 1 unit a turn (not even a guarantee with random shots and smoke), getting Battlewagons/Kanz close to meltas never works out well, and beyond Lootas everything outranges you. That Hellhound needs 1, maybe 2 turns before it shows up and fries the Lootas. 3 Kanz charging and hitting on 6's is no guarantee, neither are Lootas with smokes up.
I dunno, I've never gone up against any good Guard players.
I'm interested in what sort of army you run. Not trying to be condescending or anything, I just don't get an opportunity to have an intelligent conversation with many Ork players (Trukks and Nob Bikerz!!1oen!)
Please explain how you beat the Eradicator / Hellhound list I described, Nash. I understand it's tailored specifically to beat face on Orks, but really--assume it goes first. I've played it, and my Orks are frankly more shooty than yours are. I got crushed every time I went second. How do you even compete in Dawn of War? Just an autoloss mission for your army and mine, because the Lootas aren't firing until turn 2 and you can't protect them adequately. You should know this without arguing with me about semantics, yes?
I would agree, an army specifically tailored to beat another army, should be successful. How does that help in a tournament environment when you need to compete/beat other armies? Those Eradicators aren't nearly as good against MEQ armies.
I think anything that wounds Marines on a 2+ is good.
You can always go the Banewolf route for your template anti-meq firepower.
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