So I've finally gotten the final version of my new IG army, I believe this is iteration # 158. Plenty of changes have been made after discussing this with local players and analyzing it myself... a lot.
The list will be a Death Korps of Krieg army painted the scheme you may have seen in a post Stelek put up earlier with my test painted Chimera.
So here you go:
Company Command Squad – 50 (165)
3 Meltaguns – 30
Astropath - 30
Chimera - 55
Veteran Squad – 70 (165)
3 Meltaguns – 30
Chimera – 55
Dozer Blade - 10
Veteran Squad – 70 (165)
3 Meltaguns – 30
Chimera – 55
Dozer Blade - 10
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers – 50 (70)
2 Meltaguns - 20
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers – 50 (70)
2 Meltaguns - 20
Hellhound – 130 (155)
MultiMelta – 15
Dozer Blade - 10
Vendetta – 130 (130)
Vendetta – 130 (130)
Vendetta – 130 (130)
Vendetta – 130 (130)
Leman Russ Battle Tank – 150 (150)
Leman Russ Battle Tank – 150 (150)
Leman Russ Battle Tank – 150 (150)
Leman Russ Battle Tank – 150 (150)
Colossus – 140 (140)
Total Points - 2050
The Leman Russes and Vendettas are both in squads of two. One IST squad will be placed in each Vendetta Squad. I don't plan to give a huge strategical breakdown of the army, but I'll answer questions people have. The rest of the army is on it's way from Forgeworld so hopefully I'll be able to put it out on the battlefield soon instead of keeping it all hypothetical.
Home Army Lists Imperial Guard Warhammer 40k » Edwin's New Guard List
Monday, June 22, 2009
Edwin's New Guard List
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Edwin
Labels: Army Lists, Imperial Guard, Warhammer 40k
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18 comments:
MS Word HTML is of the devil!
Can I get a comment from the vets on this blog on this list for 1500!
HQ
CCS 4x Melta Chimera HF
Troops
9 man Vet ML 3x GL
9 man Vet ML 3x GL
10 man Vet Carapase 3x Melta
10 man Vet Carapase 3x Melta
Fast Attack
1 Valkry MP
1 Vendetta
Heavy Support
1 Vanquisher Pask Lascannon
1 Exocutionor PC Sponsons Lascannon
1 LRBT 3x HB
Im sorry if this is in the wrong spot just thought that i could get some help maybe?
Edwin - it looks like a good solid list, but can we assume there are a lot of hull mounted Heavy Flamers that you haven't mentioned? If not, the later phases of the game are going to put the Death back into the Korps of Krieg.
I'm not a fan of GL on vets. Get chimeras for your troops, they are cheap and good. Pask vanquisher sucks. Don't use a Valk unless you plan to transport something in it.
Lol...after writing this, I realize I've questioned pretty much everything, so you may end up giving the strategic breakdown afterall! Sorry about that. Anyway...
Why the ISTs in the vendettas? I understand the thought process on saving points with them instead of taking vet squads, but the (usual) goal with them seems to be to sit back and provide fire support. Moving them at any speed reduces (or eliminates) their firepower...seem silly to do so you can drop melta gunners, who would be gunning for the same sort of target.
I think I'd drop the two ISTs and the hellhound and just add two more regular mounted vet squads. The hellhound is great and all, but I find most armies are either mounted, where the multi-melta is just as good as the 3 vet-borne melta guns, or, if full of light dismounted troops, it gets shot immediately. Two more mounted vet squads provide more melta shots for anti-tank/MC shots and two flamer templates, so they're still fairly useful against hordes/troops in cover, too.
The heavy support choices are interesting, too. Why the pair of Russes? I'd think, say, an executioner with plasma sponsons would do better against almost any target, and be cheaper to boot. I guess I'd think the same regarding the colossus, too...instead of ignoring cover, though, you'll just get so many wounds against troops crammed into cover that you'll get plenty of kills regardless. Then, you still get 3 AV 14 platforms, too, which helps dilute enemy AT.
With the savings, I'd think a elite DH Inq with mystics would compliment things riding along in one of the vedettas hanging around the middle of your force. Not sure how much deep-strikey stuff is in your area, but I find the Inq pretty handy to have along. Usually give him an incinerator and vet guardsmen with flamer to add a little punch as needed.
Just a few thoughts/questions. I think it's certainly an effective list as is, I'm just curious on the thought process behind many of the decisions, because they don't mesh with how perceive things.
Grimaldi
The ISTs in vendettas aren't necessarily meant to be a suicide squad and move up at all times. Their first and foremost role is to be two extra cheap troop choices. They are a bonus when I decide in a game to scout either one or both of my Vendetta squads to block movement.
I've considered going with more veteran squads but their addition only dilutes the point of this army, which is to be a pure gunline.
The hellhound fits a roll that nothing else in this list can, and that is to alpha strike infantry that my other vehicles would rather not bother with. The increased range of the hellhounds template is something that no other unit in the army can do. If I'm being outflanked this can reach the enemy and along with the heavy flamers on the nearest chimera / battlecannon can easily destroy what came at me. In addition, it can threaten any armies that think they are clever in advancing their high cover save units at me.
Well the first point with the Leman Russes is their increased range over any other variant. The two squads will sit on opposite corners of the table backed up as far as possible, the whole army is meant to be run as two separate groups. Executions are great and all but I don't need any specialized heavy troop killing ability.
The Colossus is there because I wanted to include indirect fire into the list for multiple reasons. The reason I chose it instead of other indirect weapons is because of the unique abilities it has. The most obvious of these is that it ignores cover saves, and this is the only way to ignore cover saves of squads holding objectives without forcing my army to move forward. I chose this over a basilisk because I don't find the str 9 valuable. Any vehicles I would want to destroy with this (Medusa with camo netting) are weak enough on their side armor for str 6 to be sufficient.
The early versions of the list actually had an inquisitor incorporated for deep strike defense and also a psychic hood. I decided that defending against deep strike was not necessary enough to keep them in the list because it can screen against those armies easily enough without the inquisitor. The elite inq kinda sucks IMO, the crappy leadership just doesn't make the psychic hood worth it at that point given that the only armies powers you really need to worry about are the eldar ones. Also, adding weaponry to the inquisotor squads is far too expensive for my tastes.
The main things to note are that this list is a gun line and an armor spam list, everything is kept as cheap as possible for the role it's meant to fill.
This is the most compelling IG list I've seen yet and I think I'm going to borrow (steal) the idea of taking Inquisitorial Stormtroopers for cheap Troops.
Is there any reason you opted for the Colossus over the Medusa? I'm sure you realize that the former suffers from lower strength and an inability to fire directly. It's only advantage is the denial of cover saves, however the barrage weapon rules usually prevent cover saves from being taken anyway unless targeting infantry in area terrain. Just curious as to the selection.
Well I'm glad you like it...lol.
That Colossus is still fail though. ;)
I think its a very interesting list..I'd probably go for a manticore over a collossus though, long range strength 10 pie plates sitting side armour is win, and it rocks all infantry bar marines.
Yes there are plenty of weaknesses to it but the 24" minimum nor the inability to fire direct both me. The biggest weakness IMO is the str. 6 when you want to hit vehicles. But as I said in the previous post, It's main job is to get infantry that none of my flamer can reach out of cover and hit light tanks on their side armor. The first job is the most important and the second one is just a bonus (hence, not quite as good at it).
Re: Cob.
The manticore doesn't fill the role he wants the colossus to fill...quickly removing troops on objectives in cover. Odds are good the opponent will stick his objective in area terrain and get a +4 cover save against just about anything you throw at him...str 10 or no. The colossus ignores that, annihilates just about any troop choice and can then move along to shooting secondary targets.
It's not something I've seriously considered taking before, but I have a tournament coming up soon, so I'll try to keep it in mind and see how often I find myself wishing I had one.
Grimaldi
Well to be fair it won't totally annihilate the troops in cover, I expect to have to actually spend time shooting at them due to being able to hit maybe 6 if they are spaced equally and I manage to hit.
For 2500 points it's very likely I will pick up a second one to add to the squad so I can actually annihilate units with it. But I will decide on 2500 point additions after plenty of playtesting. I might even see if I can find 55 points to throw at some rough riders because the Krieg Death Rider models are so damn badass looking.
I can see the use of the colossus, its pretty good at its niche bar the fact its pretty inaccurate (to be fair that's the same for all indirect fire). I just prefer the flexibility of denying a lot (but not all) of cover saves with an indirect fire manticore and the ability to kill any tank with it.
How have you found the dozer blades? Have they actually been useful or are they there just for aesthetics?
I'm generally not very fond of vehicle upgrades unless they are really fantastic. In this list those tanks need to be very flexible when movement is needed. Given the history of my vehicle drivers being unable to bypass tree stumps, I decided the dozer blades could make a big difference.
Edwin subconsciously commands his dice to roll 1's whenever he enters difficult terrain.
He really truly does amazing things with his mind.
Bend a spoon next time...
Yeah I can understand that..happens to me all the time too (especially the command HQ when they need to save the day...)
I cant help but feel that adding heavy weapons instead of dozer blades would be more useful/give you some extra versatility, especially if you are a gunline anyway..the extra BS 4 lascannon/autocannons are fairly handy if you ever decide to stay still or against an army you don't really want to move towards.
My list is similar to this one..a gunline but using a manticore over a colossus and because I play at 1750 I cut 2 russes out for a medusa. I also can't afford point wise 4 vendettas and a hellhound. Normally I run 3 vendettas, but was considering 2 vendettas and a hellhound, which do you think would work better? Cover save denying is nice but I'm not sure I have enough long range firepower without 3 vendettas.
I think it's totally viable to add heavy weapons rather than dozer blades. I'm not the biggest fan of lascannons so I would go with an autocannon. I want to stick with the dozer blades because I would much rather have the flexibility it affords when it comes to shooting which can really make a difference. The other reason I don't have any heavy weapons is I'm not too keen on spending $30 for 1 heavy weapon for my krieg haha.
I think the Vendettas are more important to the list than the Hellhound which fills more of a niche role. Denying cover saves is great but the lower the point value of a game, the higher % of your points you have to dedicate for it.
Having playtested similar armies and talked further with Edwin on the subject I have to say that I totally support edwin's army design. My army happens to be quite similar and I'm quite enjoying it to be honest.
The twin IST idea isn't new and I think works better than the 1 vet unit that is replaced (i used to have 3 x vets @ 2000). Plus grav chute insertion is just cool and nicely cheeky for end of game objective grabbing :D
I've got an executioner for apoc games and it's frankly disappointing, I wouldn't run it in 40k. It can't move, only sometimes scratches the paint off vehicles and isn't any more killy against troops than a large blast marker anyway. Get a demolisher and save yourself what, 65pts?
I going to dare to argue with Stelek on the next few paragrapgs (hide!).
I don't like the medusa, big demolisher etc but direct fire only? Av12 open-topped? No thanks, I'd rather take a demolisher again. Yes it is more expensive but I've found that with the dozen or so vehicles I have that taking any more is actually turning into a disadvantage because I can't manouevre properly at times. Also I've found that taking demolishers covers both the anti-tank and anti-infantry role, having medusas means that you have to pick between them. This duality isn't so readily available and so effective in the Fast attack section. Also having Av14 during the first few turns is great too, it significantly increases survivability beyond assualt and melta range and I can use it to screen the softer targets behind.
I like the colossus, I use it for the same purpose as Edwin here and it serves that purpose better than an eradicator does (I've got one of them too and it's good but indirect ap3 is win. The 24" min range doesn't matter because it's used to target the stuff in the opponent's backyard). Meanwhile having only the one av12 opened topped vehicle rather than a bunch of them means that I only have to find cover for one of them.
As for the 4 LRBT. I can understand why Edwin has them, I prefer 2 squadrons of a demolisher and LRBT. I think I tend to use my av14 more aggressively than Edwin does and the demolisher suits that role better, also I prefer the general 'scare everything' demolisher cannon. Equally I can see how the hellhound fits into Edwin's list but I tend to move the LR squadrons up in close support of the chimera units and I've never felt the need to have a defensive unit like that as a result.
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