Wednesday, July 29, 2009

Logo

By Stelek

So, I'd like a logo made for YTTH.

This would be something you'd get credit for as ze artist, and something I can put on stuff.

If you have a suggestion, I'd love to see it.

Just drop me an email at help@yesthetruthhurts.com.

Thanks!

Update: I still need a logo! Come on, you guys can do it!
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Friday, July 17, 2009

Re: folding games

By Stelek

lloyd barrett wrote:

Hi Stelek
 
Ive been reading your site for a while now, and theres no question that my game has improved, my lists are better and im generally having more fun. Problem is, its got to the stage where in my last half a dozen games, my opponents have been quitting just as im about to win. I dont think my lists are "cheesey", but they do tend to be well thought out. Im pretty sure im not offensive to play against either, but the constant anticlimax is proving frustrating...
 
I imagine you might get this a lot, how do you deal with it? I never get a chance to go to tourneys due to work, and my casual play is all ive got. Ive also tried directing them to your site, but you can lead a horse to water... and all that.
 
Thanks,
 
Lloyd

Reply:

Glad you have improved your game and are having more fun.  Hopefully it's not just because you are winning.  lol

Well, there's quitting when you know the outcome and don't really want to play it out--and then there's two other kinds of quitting:

1)  Quitting because you are about to get tabled and don't want to give the other guy the satisfaction.

2)  Quitting because you have 2 units left, it's turn 6, and you can't win the scenario anyway.

I don't mind quitting early when I know the game is a no-winner, it avoids being annoyed.

I don't mind option #2, either. 

Option #1 is lame.  If you aren't good enough to recognize defeat, fine--but if it comes upon you suddenly, you shouldn't just quit.  Unless you are Chris, then you should.  =D

Hope that helps.  lol
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Re: Dark eldar...How nasty is too nasty?

By Stelek

james ramsay wrote:

Hey Stelek.

First of all just like to say I really enjoy your blog, you give a relative newb to 40k like me somewhere to find no bullshit advice, so thanks for that!

I've been playing dark eldar for about 3-4 months now..mostly the raider mounted variant and I've settled on a 'softer' version of a similar list you posted for my local games with friends-more combat and not having nightshields/horrorfexes on all my raiders. Archon, wych dracite, few wyche squads actually tooled out for combat =P, raider squads, ravagers, sometimes mandrakes (lol)/jetbikes thrown in for fun. I've found it to be quite competitive and its still fun to play against in my opinion.

Now my question to you is, say you were going to the UKGT in the near future would you recommend keeping a similar list I play right now or would you go all out nastyness? As you probably know the UKGT is a no comp event-but of course at tournaments you want to have good games..it can be difficult to balance it against the competitive urge to try and win...

Would anyone really want to play against: Dracon with 2 lance retinue in raider, 1xwych raider squad, 6xraider squads, 3xravagers  all with max dark lances/nightshields/horrorfexes etc ? Seems fairly one dimensonal=/.

What would you play at a 1500 point tournament level?

James

Reply:

Thanks, glad you enjoy it.  :)

Tournaments mean no holds barred.  Or they should, anyway.

I'd go all out, what did you think--the other guys were going to go soft?  lol

Yes, tournament builds are usually boring to play in friendly games.

In tournament play, you'll find they are anything but--and you'll be glad you brought the pain when someone else brings theirs.

To answer your question--there is no maximum level of 'too nasty'.  Bring all you've got.  You'll need it.

Don't forget a few slave snares and amps on your raiders!
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Re: 2250 Lizardmen

By Stelek

James Bond wrote:
> Another list here for your Stelek. I've got a game coming up with my LM in August, and it will be my first with them. I have a absolute ton of stuff, as I invested a good deal into getting a core army and then a friend dumped his old 6th edition collection on me for dirt cheap since he (like you) has a pretty strong distaste for WHFB. So for the most part adding models isn't really an issue.
>
> Anyway, here it is:
>
> Slann - 470
> - Focused Rumination, Focus of Mystery
> - BSB, War Banner, Dispell Scroll, Rod of the Storm, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones
>
> Heroes -
>
> Skink Priest w/ Engine of the Gods - 440
> - Level 2
> - Dispell Scroll, Diadem of power
>
> Scar Vet - 135
> - Light Armor
> - Enchanted Shield, Horned One
> (Goes with the Spear Saurus)
>
> Skink Chief on Ancient Stegadon - 380
> - War Spear
>
> Core -
>
> 10 Skink Skirmishers - 70
>
> 10 Skink Skirmishers - 70
>
> 10 Skink Skirmishers - 70
>
> 18 Spear Saurus -234
> - Musician, Standard
>
> Special -
>
> 3 Terradons - 90
>
> 16 Temple Guard - 291
> - Full Command
>
> Points: 2500
>
> PD: 9 w/ 1 Bound Item
> DD: 6 w/ 2 Scrolls and Diadem
> Models: 71
Reply:

Focus of Mystery is kinda meh. I understand why you'd want to have all
the spells from a lore, but for 50 points...it's pretty pricey. Plaque
of Tepok costs 15 points...you get 5 spells that way. Isn't that good
enough? I think it is.

I think Becalming Cogitation is better, for shutting down enemy wizard
lords.

Rod of the Storm is 1 use only--wtf? Why would you want that?

Blood Statuette of Spite is, imo, much better. It's not meant for
killing enemy lords, but you can totally zap a hero with it which is
great for offing little enemy wizards or BSB's.

Scar Vets, if only bringing one, should always bring Shield of the
Mirrored Pool. Reflecting magic missiles is funny.

Your two small blocks are essentially worthless. Combine their points
into one unit. Temple Guard probably would be best. Sun Standard of
Chotec is good.

The 'new' weakness of Lizardmen is no longer having a ward save against
enemy shooting. Specifically, war machines with no roll to hit. Don't
be afraid to run a silly formation, like 10 across and 3 deep, to
mitigate this. Even with an Engine of the Gods around.

I think having a Razordon unit and possibly a 4th Terradon would do you
good.

Anyway, the Lizardmen in your kind of army are all about magic and
preventing enemy magic.

If you play against a non-magical army, having good spells to shut down
the inevitable mass cav or mass shooty is best--but having a solid
battle line as you could with a few tweaks, is second best. Combine for
victory.

Hope that helps. :)

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Re: Ard Boyz

By Stelek

K S wrote:

Just a link to how some folks that post on BnC did and how certain armies placed.
 
 
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=173196


Reply:

Groovy, I hope people like it.

That's a marine forum, right?  ;)
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Primer

By Stelek

Howdy,

This is the primer to using this site to full effect.

First, if you want to know a bit about the purpose of this site, please read my mission.  You should also read this gem from my buddy John.  It really boils things down to the crux of why we do this.

Second, site navigation.  All search features are on the right hand side.

Lijit search is pretty easy, type in something and you'll search through the blog posts and comments.  Sometimes it doesn't quite find what you want so there are other ways to get to exactly what you want:

Use the Blog Archive to go back in time to a specific month.

Use the Label Search to go through each specific subject.

Neither is really working properly, because of things I've done to the site.  Hopefully I will get those booboos fixed soon.  ;)

Third, contacting us.  There are several of us here, buddies of mine with a passion for the hobby.  I answer most of the questions, but you can always ask them.  Please, don't hesitate to ask questions!

With some of the basics out of the way, here's the lowdown on using YTTH to best advantage.

Yes, we write good lists.  There are quite a few places you can go for a 'fix' on list building, but explaining how to use each list is something most people don't do.

We do.

I have a whole bunch of armies, virtually all of them have been played at GT's and locally for a very long time--I offer you the benefit of my experience, and frankly of my wallet.  Most people don't own this many armies, let alone have years of experience running them against many different kinds of lists.

The goals here are many, but in terms of using the blog--find the army you'd like more information on, and read the posts presented.  Getting insights into list building and tactics, even of armies you do not own or regularly play against, WILL improve your game.

Why read what I have to say over say a big GT winner?  Well, I don't play flavor of the month armies.  I have run some armies for years without changing much about them at all.  If you build a good enough army, it will stand the test of time.

That said, I expect the site to go through phases.  When a new book comes out, I'll try to review it.  Then the flood of army lists will come.  Hopefully by then we'll have some tacticas, batreps, and deployment/scenario discussions.

Expert players have to remember that while you might be able to make a good list, many people can't.  They see a pretty model and that's that.  So you'll have to put up with army list submissions, because it's part of the mission to help the newbies who can't figure out the game.

Since I am not so wealthy I can buy a new army every month (well, my wife would have a fit), I've tried to stockpile sufficient armies to allow me to 'buy into' any army that interests me and do updates when books are re-released.  Given GW's glacial pace of release, I think I'm finally getting to that point where I am finally 'ahead' of the GW curve.
This means something to you because I can keep my experience current with each new release.  Some armies I just won't buy, and you'll know why when that decision is made.  At any rate, it helps me perform my mission if I actually play what I'm talking about.  ;)

Now on to some shall we say, required reading.

All the links so far, you should have explored.

Now some more reading for you.

Duality.

Fantasy vs 40k.

40k Army Rankings.

Building a 'Best of' army list.

AP vs Weight of Fire.

How 5th edition works.

Some of this might be obvious, but for many it's not.  If you are new here, read that stuff!  :)

I think that will cover it for now, if there's something I should add--you should tell me! 

Thanks.
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Thursday, July 16, 2009

Hurr!

By Stelek

It's not the recession, news media of epic suckup.

Stop making shit for morons and sales will go the fuck up.

If you can't figure it out yet, the fact that EA has any games in the top 10 speaks widely to the crap being spewed out.

Yay for Gay for Windows, Steamy Poop, and all the other 'anti-piracy' efforts being hacked daily.

Meanwhile, console games continue to suck and the brain requirements to play them has continued to freefall.

WTB: Reason to have a PC.

Selling: Earth Day. (Cheap!)
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Re: Batrep 'Ard Boyz Prelims Wichita, KS

By Stelek

Micah wrote:
Batrep 'Ard Boyz Prelims Wichita, KS

Wichita, Kansas at Agents of Comics.

Our field had about 16 players, the only armies without representation were DH, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.

My list Boring Chaos:

2x Lash Princes, Wings

3x CSM squadsx10, 2x melta, icon of chaos glory, Rhino

2x Plaguemarine squadsx6, 2x melta, personal icon, Rhino

3x Terminatorx4, Chainfist, 3x combi melta, heavy flamer

3x Obliteratorx3

Round 1 I played a mishmash of Orks.  He had two big individualized Nob squads in Trukks with Warbosses, a Deff Dread, 90 Boyz in 30-man squads, a big unit of Stormboyz and Snikrot.  He won the roll for 1st/2nd turn and opted to go first.  He deployed across the board in a typical battle line with his Nob Trukks in the center.  I deployed in a Refused Flank on my far left to the opposite side of his Stormboyz with all my deep strikers in reserve

His first turn he sort of just rushes forward.  His Trukk zooms 13 to settle about 15 away from my nearest rhino.  Everything that can run, runs.  I drive forward 6-12 in a sideways L formation with the DPs in the pocket and keep almost everything inside.  I dont want Snikrot mucking up my DPs so I disembark a squad of PMs on the corner of the L as bait for the charge.  I lash two Boyz squads back to their starting line after I pop the near Trukk with meltagun fire.

Turn 2 Snikrot assaults the bait Plague Marine squads and everything runs forward again.  For some reason he doesnt commit his 2nd squad of Trukk Nobz, so his first squad is unsupported when they run in and assault some rhinos, exploding one and immobilizing the other.  And then the dying starts.  I get in some Oblits and Terms, combi melta fire blows the Deff Dred and combined plasma cannons kill more than half the Nobz and leave a Warboss alive.  Bolter and meltagun fire finishes them off and the plague marines sitting in the immobile rhino blows the trukk.  Ive flown 1 DP forward to screen my Marines from the Boyz in case they Waaagh into range of my exposed CSM squads.  He took the bait with Snikrot and I figure hell do the same with the DP.

Turn 3 his Nobz drive forward and disembark into terrain.  My gunline is in a rough C with the open end facing his Nobz.  He burns his Waaagh and gets a total assault move of 7 inches, which is still 2 inches short of my nearest unit.  His Boyz charge the Daemon Prince while a 3rd squad takes the central objective.  His Stormboyz claim an objective on my far edge.  No idea why he disembarked into terrain like that, but Im not complaining.  Lash and gunfire blows the Nobz apart and an assault finishes them off in subsequent turns.  The rest of the game is me killing my way through 60-odd Boyz.  Massacre.

Round 2 is against Shrike Marines with 1 max Sniper Scout squad, 3 Tac squads with 2 Rhinos, 2 Assault squads with PF, 1 Vindicator, 1 Dreadnought, and Shrike+AssTerms.

He wins the roll for 1st/2nd turn and opts to go first, deploying across the table in a gunline.  Dunno why.  Again I set up the armored L with DPs and Rhinos, keeping Oblits and Terms in reserve.  He drives forward and fleets AssMarines.  I drive forward and pop smoke.  T2 his shooting is largely ineffective and Im able to drive into his center and start blowing vehicles while embarked.  He gets a couple assaults that are largely ineffective against the 2+ armor of my oblits and Terms.  Hes whittling my guys down but his AssMarines are bogged in combat.  T3 Shrike shows up and I promptly lash him back to the table edge.  Two squads of Oblits pour Pcannon fire into the Assterms while the rest of his vehicles get wiped.  In a notably unfabulous assault my DP dies to an immobilized Dreadnought, so he gets 5 KP.  Bleh.  Otherwise its firmly in my favor as CSMs launch into his AssMarines and butcher them in CC.  Hes run out of units, his assaults are ineffective, and Shrike and the AssTerms get shot off the table.  Hes wiped, massacre.

Round 3 is against Calgar Superfriends Marines.  This guy showed up with a NoobHammer list; Calgar+Lysander+12 AssTerms in 2 LRCs, 2 Vindicators, 3 Rhinos with Tac squads.  Hed been simply driving forward and face humping with his Terminators and it got him enough points for first place.  I win the roll for 1st turn and opt to deploy.  I break my deployment into 3 Rhinos with DPs at center table, 2 Rhinos along the edge at center.  He deploys in an armored spearhead and fails to seize initiative.  I drive forward 12 and pop smoke on the leading Rhino with PMs.  He drives forward 12 and uses PotMS to AssCannon my DPs.  WTF?  I make all the relevant saves.  Because I moved forward aggressively hes close enough to assault, so he dumps his squads and charge my rhinos.  Two explode; 1 with PMs, 1 with CSM. 

Im delighted.  I get a squad of Oblits and Termicides on my reserves and drop one next to each LRC.  Combined melta fire manages to stun both.  whoo.  I double lash the Marneus squad 9 away through terrain, so Im pretty confident he cant reach me next turn.  The other prince melts his own head, so Lysander is sitting put.  I dump bolters into his Termis and kill 4.  Next turn he fires his vindicator at my exposed CSM squads, scatters onto Lysander and kills 1 more Termie.  His rhinos shoot at my 2 flanking rhinos but fail to do much due to cover.  He assaults Lysander into my head-melted DP and the Assterms into a CSM squad.  Marneus looms closer.

R3 I get a bunch of deep strikers in and blow both LRC and a Vindicator.  I screen Marneus with a squad of PMarines.  I charge my fresh DP into Lysander and kill him but my other CSM squad is getting whomped at 2 guys/turn against his single remaining AssTerm.  My other rhinos keep rushing the far objective.  His shooting immobilizes one remaining rhino and his Vindicator does dick.  Marneus gets a combi charge against a Termicide squad and the Pmarines and gets bogged.  His lone AssTerm finally dies.  My 4 is spent positioning my units; Obliterators kill the vindicator and remaining rhino while the surviving CSM squad hops onto the near objective.  The three guys left after the AssTerm stomping move up with my DPs towards his northernmost rhino.  He spends his turn bogged in assault against Pmarines and Terms or shooting out of rhinos, which does nothing.  Finally Calgar kills off all the Pmarines and the Termis break so he rushes my objective.  I simply lash him into a ball and dump Pcannon and bolter fire into him.  By now Ive got the near objective completely secured with 4 Termis and 3 Oblits +2 squads of Marines humping the far one.  Calgar and 1 Termi survive and they charge an oblit squad, crushing it, but I wipe them off with shooting.  His exposed Marines get shot off the table and he makes a run for the objective to contest, but I simply lash him off.  Massacre, and 1st place overall.

2nd place was Khorne Horde Marines

3rd place was the Calgar Superfriends guy who tied with a mixed Marines player.

Reply:

Another nice bat rep, thanks Micah!  =)
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Re: Amazon Review

By Stelek

Doug wrote:

I figured you might get a kick out of this….

My friend forwarded this link to me….read a few of the reviews…

http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Mens-Three-Short-Sleeve/product-reviews/B002HJ377A/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

Keep on Blogg’n

Doug.

Yep, that's pretty funny.  What's your cut of the sales?  ;)
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Foot Armies

By Stelek

Jan wrote:

Hi Stelek
So I'm looking for something new. Recently I sent some stupid list to Froggage but it seems he's not around. So while I wait I can as well pester you with some other questions ;). I was thinking about foot armies, simply because they are not mech which everyone and their mother runs. So are there any viable foot armies left? I know Guard can be effective but they are not my cup of tea. I'm mainly interested in Eldar. I was thinking about Wraithlords and spam of guardians with some heavy weapons and warlocks with mobile cover saves, add Avatar and some farseer. Any good? Maybe avengers would be better or rangers? I know very little about eldar codex so I can't really tell if its good idea. Any tips, directions what can make good foot army?

Reply:

Oh I'm sure Froggage is somewhere around here.  lol

Anyway, certainly you can build a foot list. 

An Eldar one though?

Problem with Eldar foot armies is you have limited means of popping enemy tanks open, so many armies will be able to roll up on you and take you apart bit by bit.

I see a lot of complaints about Mechdar being 'common', but truth is--without vehicles, the Eldar cannot deliver knockout punches.

You can if you wish run a list based on having some bikes, does that count?  lol

Fire Dragons can't be used in a foot list effectively, they'll be shot up.  Since they are your best place to get meltaguns, that leaves Harlies.

Personally I'd put more effort into a semi-mech list, instead of a foot list.  Eldar aren't marines, they can't just pretend like they can make their way in the world with specialized troops and no way to deliver them.

Sorry man, other armies can do foot builds but Eldar really struggle.
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Ah, the UK

By Stelek

Makes me a sad Panda.

So here is my question:

What happens when a policeman shows up (or a fireman, or a doctor) for the stuff they routinely go to schools for.

Will the school be allowed to bar those with police powers from entering because they aren't on this snazzy little list?

Will the policeman (or town mayor, or parent) be fired from their job?

Ah yes. The UK. Makes me giggle.

Be better to just make everyone fill out a questionairre every 3 months and tax everyone 60% of their earnings.

Call me crazy. ;)
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Handicapping

By Stelek

So, a very interesting subthread going on here.

You should probably read through the comments before continuing...









My Reply:

Most sports handicappers are known as scam artists.

So let's look at Handicapping, and why doing it in 40k is pointless the way the Necro is doing it.

Data.  What data?  Why is data important?

Well the heart of any handicapper is being professional about it.

They look at much more than a teams makeup--the team would be the players list.

1) Scores in other events.  Obviously, the final score rarely tells the story of the game.  Did the player get an early lead and then blow it late?  Did they defend their lead?  Did they come from behind?

2)  Match ups.  Ostensibly this is the GOAL of handicapping, but in reality this is just data for determining the handicap.  How does one list fare against another in similar situations?  Is there a consistent pattern that sets one list above the others that has nothing to do with the win-loss-tie record or the final tournament scores?

3)  Coaches.  That would be you, the player.  Do the 'players' on your 'team' play as well as the competition?  Are the correct for the game being played tactics used?  Is the coach experienced?

4)  Trending.  Is the list underperforming or overperforming?  Hot streak?  Cold streak?  How well does the 'coach' perform after 2 days of solid gaming?

5)  Strength of the list and it's coach.  How does the 'team' perform at home (their local store) vs an away environment, and against certain matchups?  What is the lists strength in the game that makes them different from other teams?

Honestly, what the Necro is doing is meddling in a very amateurish and non-scientific way.

If you mostly play Fantasy, you certainly are no expert on 40k and if money was riding on the game there's no way I'd use your rather unscientific and unprofessional 'methodology' to wager my cash.

Most of the 'analysis' can't even be done in the first place, because ALL of the data listed above simply does not exist.

There isn't a nationwide ranking system, which is the BASIS for handicapping ANY event.

Shit, you couldn't get a Vegas oddsmaker to lay down bets based on this, because you have no idea what you are doing and it shows.

This isn't a putdown on your tournament.  It might be the most sold out wonderful piece of fried chicken goodness I'll ever eat--but I wouldn't want to play if I was preassigned to my competitor by your prejudiced opinion.  If you prestack by list, don't pretend like you are doing anyone a favor, k?  Prestacking lists is lame, and is not any kind of handicapping system.

I'd look on the Necro forums for more info on this 'handicap' system since it's not advertised anywhere, but the fucking board has been down for the past two days and I've given up.

Running events this way is indeed WAAC gaming at it's worst, at it's most hypocritical.    GW used to try to do this, and people called bullshit on it until they stopped.

There is a reason people stopped going to the GW GT's, because GW tried to tell us what to bring and what was 'acceptable'.  Well, people said fuck you and left.  The Indy's aren't any better than GW, and putting in artificial limits is indeed a shitty thing to do to any sport.

The best way to make any kind of handicapping work is to:

A)  Actually run tournaments properly.  That means an elimination system, not that BOLScon stuff either.  Man that gives me a headache.  lol

B)  Have a national ranking system that is required for all players.  Not the crap GW uses, which is hopeless and helpless.

Here's the rating system you should use.

Here's several ways to run a tournament properly.  Swiss, and elimination.

Personally I think Accelerated Pairings should be used at events with over 40 players in a 5 game format.

7 game formats over 2 days are fail, BOLS.  You'll see. 

People will not enjoy playing each other twice, which is something that can be forbidden without upsetting the game system (just as making players from certain groups not have to play each other can also be handled easily).

So to recap:

You don't handicap.

Using a proper tournament format should really not be that difficult.

GW needs a real rating system not that stupid shit they currently use (which has no basis in reality).
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Search

By Stelek

I've re-enabled the label search, and restored the blogger archive to a month--unless that wasn't what people were using.  Then comment, and I'll see what I can do.  ;)
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Re: metagame army

By Stelek

Anthony Newton wrote:
> Hi, I'm going to get into 40k. I don't want to spend a fortune
> learning how to play the game with crappy units. So I would just like
> to know where to find posted tournament level lists from GTs on the net.
> I know of dual lash, nob bikers and those lists. But I want something
> a bit more individual, a kind of rouge army that plays well in meta.
> I'm thinking of CSM or necrons maybe at 1500pts. I've read your CSM
> post on dakka. You mentioned that dual lash was one of the few
> competive CSM builds, there is also raider spam, but I'm not sure
> about building+ painting all those raiders lol.
>
> Cheers, keep up the good work.
Reply:

Most of the lists posted here are quite competitive.

Chaos really isn't competitive. It can almost feel like it is, then you
redo your list with another book and get more/better for less. lol

Necrons sure as hell aren't. Don't let any 40k enthusiasts fool you
into thinking they are anything but suck. ;)

All of my armies listed under 'My Armies' are very competitive, so if
searching the site doesn't suit you...give that a whirl.

As soon as I get a chance I'll be updating the site search again today,
so you can look for 'Best Of' and get one of those lists in the army you
prefer. Note that a Necron 'Best Of' list is still not competitive.
Same with Chaos, Orks and Nids. Just aren't very competitive for
various reasons.

Hope that helps!

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Re: Dreadnought drop pod list

By Stelek

Gorman wrote:
Hey Stelek
 
I've working on a new Iron Hands assault list, and wanted your feedback - your previous considerations of my IG lists have really been helpful.
 
Here is the list:
 
HQ
Master of the Forge with power sword @ 115
 
Vulkan He'Stan @ 190
 
ELITES
Dreadnought with multi-melta, in drop pod with locator beacon @ 150
 
Dreadnought with multi-melta, in drop pod with locator beacon @ 150
 
Dreadnought with assault cannon and heavy flamer, in drop pod @ 160
 
TROOPS
Tactical squad with power fist, melta-gun and multi-melta, in drop pod @ 235
 
Tactical Squad with power fist, flamer and multi-melta, in drop pod @ 230
 
Tactical Squad with power fist, flamer and missile launcher, in drop pod @ 230 
 
HEAVY SUPPORT
Dreadnought with assault cannon and heavy flamer, in drop pod @ 160
 
Ironclad Dreadnought, in drop pod with locator beacon @180
 
Ironclad Dreadnought, in drop pod with locator beacon @ 180

 

That comes in at 1980 in total. It has done quite well against mech forces, using the meltas to pop transports and then the assault cannons and heavy flamers to flush out the passengers.

What do you think about dropping the third Tac Squad and maybe adding some scout bikers or a couple of landspeeders? How about placing some of the tactical squads in rhinos? That would perhaps shift the theme a little bit, but stop me from going mad building drop pods

Cheers for any advice

Gorman


Reply:

So the Alien didn't get you, and you got out before the nuclear explosion?  Fast feet.  ;)

I think an all drop pod force has both positives and negatives.  My question is, how do you drop?

I'm not sure why you want power fists on your tacticals--are the 6 dreads not enough CC?

Have you considered a single 10 man terminator assault squad?  I think dropping it on turn 2 or 3, along with a bunch of terminators, will probably make people cry.  Combat squad + locator beacons = win.

Put the tacticals in Rhinos if you like, I can see putting them in drop pods or rhinos in this army.

While speeders would be good for an all drop pod force, maybe putting the MOF on a bike with a CB and a MM AB hiding behind a couple rhinos would give your force a little extra anti-tank punch at range.  Which seems to be your only drawback.

It feels compromised to do that though.

Do the 2 standard and 2 ironclad dreads also have heavy flamers?  If not, they probably should.

Personally though, I think ironclads don't really fit in a drop pod army...
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Re: Fw: Ard Boyz Battle Report

By Stelek

Julnlecs wrote:
>
> We had 14 people show up at our Ard Boyz event in Bakersfield California.I saw 2x chaos, space marines x6, tyranids x2, 1x eldar, 1x IG, 1x orks, 1x inquisition. I went with Blood Angels and here is my list.
>
> Dante
>
> Lemartes
>
> Death Company x8
>
> 3 ten man Vet Assault Squad powerfist 2x melta guns
>
> 3 ten man assault squad powerfist
>
> 1 five man assault squad powerfist
>
> 3 attack bikes multimelta
>
> First Match: Chaos Space Marines
>
> Lash prince
>
> Lash prince
>
> Greater Demon
>
> 4 plague marine squads rhino meltas
>
> berserker squad
>
> land raider
>
> terminators
>
> 2 oblits
>
> vindicator
>
> vindicator
>
> I was able to charge on turn two. One squad of vets kept the two demon princes occupied for the three turns that we played. princes kept whiffing and killing two at a time. After combat the princes were free, i killed a wounded prince with melta fire. berserker squad died to death company and lemartes. Dante charged plagues. Assault squads multicharged plagues and rhinos. some assault squads went after the two vindis. at the end i won with minor victory 12 kill points to 4. i was too busy fighting i didnt get a chance to move onto the objectives. i had lemartes death company, 1 vet squad, 1 attack bike, 3 assault squads, he had lash prince, greator demon, plague squad and rhino, oblits.
>
> Second Match: Space Marines
>
> Lysander
>
> Cassius
>
> Sternguard in drop pod
>
> dreadnough in drop pod
>
> tactical in drop pod
>
> assault termies
>
> tactical squad in razor back
>
> tactical squad
>
> Land Raider
>
> Land Raider Crusader
>
> Vindicator
>
> I won with a minor victory. He had alot of shooting but once i charged he had no where to shoot.
>
> Third Match: Chaos Space Marines
>
> Abbadon
>
> Chaos Lord
>
> Termies
>
> Thousand sons in rhino
>
> berserker squad
>
> chaos marine squad
>
> bike squad
>
> raptors
>
> vindicator
>
> defiler
>
> dreadnought
>
> 3 oblits
>
> Not being able to reach objectives i won with a minor victory with 7 kill points to 5.
>
> I ended in third place with three minor victories and was the only one who went all three rounds without a loss. First Place went to Space Marines with one loss and two massacres. He lost in the first round . Second place was 6 monstruos creature Tyranids. Well i feel like using this list for the Semis. What do you think.
>
> Julnlecs

Reply:

Thanks for the great write-up!  I wish others would submit some.  :)

I think your list is a big rock.  If people figure out how to stop it, you're dead.  It's certainly not easy to stop, personally I'd fear double Nob bikers the most with this list, they'll eat your squads and you can't really torrent them down.  As assault heavy Tyranid list might also give you trouble.

Of course, I don't think you'll run into either at the next level.  Who knows though.
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Wednesday, July 15, 2009

Telion

By Stelek

Josiah said...

Stelek, could you explain why Telion is so good with scouts the way you have for maugen ra? I would love to hear what you feel the best use for him is. I guess the obvious is giving your ML BS6 when you are tank sniping, but what would you prioritize for his sniping attacks? Also, how does his wound allocation work, do you put his wounds on after the opponent has allocated the rest?

Reply:

Certainly.  Telion is the only way to make your only foot squad (in most marine armies) not completely suck.

Taking an objective is fine, but meh you can only do so much with a useless squad--and if you are going to spend points in 40K, you need a squad that has multiple threats.

Shooting, CC, and survivability are all things you want in these units.

Sadly, without a CC character in the unit you can't give scouts much in the way of CC.

Since they were nerfed down to BS3, they suck at shooting.

Telion makes them not suck so bad at shooting.  They become, in essence, a set of wound counters for Telion and his ability to bestow BS6 or rending hits.

His primary use is as a sniper.

You get to allocate any wounds he causes on whatever models you want.

So picking off meltagunners and sergeants is what he does best.

Being able to boost the crap BS3 missile launcher to BS6 is good, even if the accompanying shot isn't so hot at taking down armor; it gives the scouts duality where they did not really have it before.

I hope that helps.
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Stupid Eldar Trick # 317

By Stelek

So, I've got my Eldar back. Some work still needs to be done on them,
but I figured I might as well peruse the contents of the Codex for some
funsies combos since nobody else seems to have done so.

There are plenty of powerful combos in the Eldar codex, but the one I
never see (due to the popularity of other HQ choices) is the one I'm
glad I don't see.

Jain Zar + Farseer + Full Harlequin squad.

Fortune + Doom on enemy units = bad day already.

Now combine fleet with IC status so even diff terrain really won't slow
you down (ignore terrain because of flip belts, ignored because of IC's;
yet slowest move is still the IC's, meaning you roll 3D6--at least, I
think that's how it would work).

While the FAQ says Exarch powers do not affect non-aspect warrior
squads, you'll find a careful reading of the War Shout power indicates
any squad fighting her still takes the test. Since she should be
fighting, stands to reason you'll have to take the test. Why does that
matter? Well it won't happen often, but any squad that blows it morale
check (no matter what squad it is barring Celestians and Fearless
squads), will be hitting you on 5+ because your lowest WS is 5. 1
against 5 is bad news.

Anyway, the Farseer and Jain Zar (mostly the Farseer though) give you
added punch against things like Dreads; and with both the Farseer and
Jain Zar available to take the first two shots from every torrent (2+
reroll and 4+ reroll are fun) while heavy weapons like lascannons go
into the regular Harlies (5+ reroll, or 4+ reroll with cover).

Harlies main problem in winning combats is of course Terminators. Jain
Zar hits all terminators on 3+, and wounds them on 2+ (and with a
re-roll to wound, every wound should land). Even Thunder Shield
terminators don't like Jain Zar. They can kill her, of course, but
combined with the mass of Harlies attacking the number of power
weapon/rending hits should be pretty high. Combine with the regular
wounds and it's a squad that can deal out the punishment.

Now the great thing is, you can 'split' this unit into two when you
really need to assault with the Harlies. Move Jain Zar and the Farseer
off by themselves, and form a 'super' character unit. Then the Harlies
go back to being flip belt enabled, and you assault a different unit
with Jain Zar and the Farseer. Or of course, just help the Harlies
assault part of the enemy lines outside of combat.

Jain Zar pretty much always has 5 attacks (she does not confer
counter-attack to non-aspect units, but she does not lose it).

Now while I grant she's an asset to a Seer Council, Harlies are a pain
in the ass to target where the Seer Council on foot is not.

That's why I like this trick. Toss in a couple Fusion pistols for the
ability to pop transports, and all of a sudden things aren't looking so
rosy for enemies. Know what is really neat about Flip Belt Harlies?
Looks to me like they can ignore Dangerous Terrain tests. So blowing up
a vehicle isn't a bad thing.

Why haven't I chosen another of the Exarchs? Simple really. Jain Zar
is S6. So is Maugen Ra, but this is a unit that will be fleeting
forward. For the same reason, Eldrad wasn't taken. Need to be able to
assault. Having a unit that can sit in midfield and be very difficult
to target, but able to reach anyone likely to fire at them--it's a great
thing. Fixing up survivability with a Farseer, Terminators with Jain
Zar, and Dreads with the Seer/Zar combo; well it's a good thing.
Remember Jain Zar has furious charge so is S7 on the charge. Not too
shabby when fighting MC, especially with Doom up. Harlies usually romp
through MC, because every wound caused is generally a power weapon rend;
but it's nice to have Jain Zar there to really put the odds in your favor.

That's my stupid Eldar trick for today.

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Lijit Search updated

By Stelek

Looks like John got the search from Lijit adhering to site colors and working better than before.

Hopefully we can get that recent readers thing added back, I liked it. :)

Anyway it appears the 'search' results are hosted by Lijit and thus might not be color codable so that horrid white might stay.

But it looks like people are using it, and it appears to be a better search than before.

Hopefully we can get that multiple tag search implemented but I'm not sure if it will work with me hacking the shit out of my template. lol

At any rate, it does look like putting in multiple search terms does pop up posts labeled appropriately, so for now maybe that will work for you guys and gals.

Let me know what you think of it so far please. :)
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Re: Help for Vanilla Marines

By Stelek

Pronz72 wrote:

>
> Hello guys!
>
>
> I have been closely following your site and really appreciated its philosophy.
> I'm really looking forward on getting your expert advice on a list.
> My buddy is a long time Space marine fan (a Dark Angel fan to be precise).
> Apparently some local players are "power playing" and not very "friendly/fluffy" playing, so the fluff list of my friend (based on the DA codex) always suffered.
> Finally he came to put together a list using the SM codex at 2000 pts (here in Tilea we game at this level) but with alternate success.
> So here's the list:
>
>     Vulkan
>     Belial
>     5x TH/SS termies (with Belial)
>     1x LR
>     2x MM/HF Dreads
>     1x MissileLauncher/Melta Tac (Sgts w/ power weapon)
>     2x twin LC Razorbacks
>     5 Scouts w/camo cloack and sniper rifles
>     5 Devastators w/ 4 LC
>     1 twinLC/LC Predator w/ Cronus upgrade
>     3x Assault bikes w/MM
>
> usually the lone squad is split up and assigned to the 2 Razorbacks.
> Sometimes he exchanges Belial and the Termies squad for 2 more missile/Melta tac squads with powersword sergeant (a choice I personally favour).
> Considering that the most like adversaries here are Chaos mech lists with 2/3 Land Raiders or mech Orks do you have any suggestions to improve the list or its use?
>
> thanks in advance
>

>
> Pronz72

Reply:

I'm glad you like the blog.  :)

That list is a bit of a mess--too much battleforce, not enough duality and redundancy.

First, you cannot run Vulkan and Belial (I swear this came up before).

Second, if you are going to run Thunder Shield terminators at 2000 points you need two of those units (and the LR to match).

Check out Edwin's Marine list.  It's got some range issues, but it's a solid list nonetheless.

If you are going to bring only 15 troops, you are going to get rocked in objective missions.

LC Razorbacks, the Devs, and the Chronus Pred are all way too spendy.

You need some lighter weapons fire with range, that is something your list could use.  Two standard Preds would probably go a long way to making your list viable, and having at least two tactical squads in Rhinos would also help quite a bit.

Things like a Librarian with Null Zone are so effective because they force multiply your Terminators capabilities against super units that can hurt your army.

Anyway, if you run into lists with Chaos Land Raiders (known as Fail Raiders) and Mech Orks (known as Fail Orks) you should be thankful.

I hope that helps a bit.  :)
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Re: 2500pt marine list

By Stelek

tully barton wrote:
I was updating my 2500 pt marine list and hoped you could provide some wargear tweaks.  I had meant to playtest it at ardboys, but other commitments got in the way.   It's a bit late now, but I still want to try this out.  The base list is basically just Best Of + 2 th/ss termie units in LRs, but I had a few points left over and was unsure how best to use them.  I took a 5th mm speeder in the list below, but adding some wargear instead is tempting too.

Vulcan 190

Librarian 100
null zone, quickening

10 Tactical Squad 205
flamer, multi melta, rhino

10 Tactical Squad 205
flamer, multi melta, rhino

10 Tactical Squad 205
flamer, multi melta, rhino

5 Scouts 100
missile launcher, sniper rifles, camo cloaks

Dreadnought 105
multi melta

5 Terminator Assault Squad 200
th/ss
Land Raider Redeemer 250
multi melta

5 Terminator Assault Squad 200
th/ss

2 Land Speeders 130
1x multi melta, 1x multi melta+heavy flamer

2 Land Speeders 130
1x multi melta, 1x multi melta+heavy flamer
1 Landspeer 60
multi melta

Land Raider Redeemer 250
multi melta

Predator 85
autocannon, heavy bolter

Predator 85
autocannon, heavy bolter

Total: 2500

Other options I was thinking of (in no particular order):
1. termie armor+ss for librarian
2. telion
3. heavy flamers for speeders and/or dreadnought
4. swap redeemers->crusaders

I like the idea of an extra mm speeder, but I tend to err on undergearing and regretting it later.  What do you recommend?

Reply:

I'd add a Dread.  Combine the two terminator assault squads into one and just combat squad them, saving you an elite slot.

I doubt I'd bother with the scouts at 2500 points--they are just a target in such a small squad at this level.  Possibly bringing suicide melta IST squads in Chimeras (WH book) would be a better way to burn extra points.

You can always swap marines into the Chimeras and let the IST's take the marine rhinos.

Well anyway I think that's a better way to spend your extra points, increasing your killing power and survivability at the same time.
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Yes!

By Stelek

Go Philly!

Oh wait...that's a BAD thing. :P

Though this IS bad. Seriously, wtf? That's my backyard, where I grew up.

Man, that's some lame ass shit.
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Re: 1500 Marines

By Froggage

Robert Sztremer wrote:

Hi Jimmy,

First of all, I want to say thanks to Stelek, you, and the entire group running this blog. Ever since a friend mentioned it to me, I became a regular reader and even managed to put my two cents in on a couple of posts, LOL. Really, thanks for doing a great job to support 40k community.

I'm starting to build a Marine army from scratch. Here's where I'm heading with 1500 points:

HQ: Master of the Forge (Full Servo Harness, Power Sword) (115)

Elite: Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (115)
Elite: Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (115)
Elite: Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (115)

Troops: Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Razorback, Sergeant with Power Weapon) (230)
Troops: Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Razorback) (215)
Troops: Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Razorback) (215)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (70)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (70)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (70)

Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons) (85)
Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons) (85)

I'm going to play it as a shooty list with a little bit of assault punch. I'd like to overwhelm my opponent with a large number of dangerous targets. All troops will be split into combat squads with meltagun and sergeant in transport and missile launcher out in the open sniping at the enemy. The HQ will join the combat squad in the Razorback with PW Sergeant. If the need/opportunity arises, they can jump out and kill a mediocre unit in CC.

I was thinking of maybe dropping one Dread and putting lascannons on the tac-squads and going with Missile Launchers on Land Speeders-- it would make the army more dangerous on long range, but it's one Dread less. Also, should I bother with power weapons and making HQ and one combat squad a bit assaulty? On the other hand, I'm really at a loss on what to do about the HQ. A Conversion Beamer? A Librarian? Above all, I'd like to keep my list highly competitive-- a lot of good players in my store.

I'd love to get your tips on above issues and in general on how to improve this 1500 list. Also, an idea on how to expand it to 1750, 1850, and eventually 2000 would be really great.

Many thanks in advance.

Robert

Reply:

First, you are welcome, we like to hear that people appreciate our work. Sorry it has taken me so long to get to some of these. I will hopefully clear my backlog soon.

My first question is how married are you to the razorbacks? If you are ok, but dont' try to make tac marines what they aren't: assaulty. I would put the MoF on a bike with conversion beamer which you can afford by dropping all the CC upgrades and the HF from the dreads. If you aren't you can go with rhinos and give the tac marines MM and MG or MM and flamer plus melta bombs on the sarge.

To go to 1750 add another pred, speeder, and a 5 man scout squad with camo cloaks, sniper rifles and ML. (See the best of SM list.)

1850 maybe add another speeder, and give the dreads HF.

2000 add another speeder, Telion and 2 more scouts.

Give it a try and let me know how you like it.
Jimmy
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Re: 1000 points Iyanden

By Froggage

paul shriar wrote:

I have two lists I'm considering at 1000 points ...

List One

Avatar

4 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Spear, Conceal

10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Spear, Conceal

9 DA, Exarch Dual SC, Bladestorm, Defend

3x Support Weapons, Shadow Weavers

Or ...

Farseer, Doom

2x 9 DA, Exarch, Dual SC, Bladestorm

10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Conceal

Wraithlord, EML. BL

3x Support Weapons, Shadow Weavers

The Support Weapons have actually done really well for me at 1000 points. Three pie plates a turn get annoying very quickly and they supplement my anti swarm.

List number one is short on bodies but tough as nails overall. Thre is something about fielding an Avatar and fourteen WG at 1000 points that is appealing. List two is a bit more conventional and not as top heavy on Elites and HQ.

Comments and please rip it apart.

Thanks ...

Bebe @ tauonline and 40konline

Paul for everyone else ...


Reply:

I am sure you already realize that 1000 points is very small to play Wraithguard. That said we will get to the lists.

The first one is very tough, but lacks for any kind of killing power. So long as your opponent stays more than 18" away all he has to worry about are your support weapons. That makes it really easy to concentrate firepower on them, and then take apart the rest of the army from range (Tau and IG will both just sit back and decimate you from across the table). It might take awhile but it will get done.

Second is similar you just added a Wraithlord to the ranged category. You might consider dropping the second DA for another Wraithlord. It isn't like you really need 3 troops at 1000 with Wraithguard in the mix. I would also drop bladestorm and the exarch (you have to in order for the second WL to fit).

As for both I think there are far more effective Eldar builds at 1000 points, but they aren't Iyanden. We are gluttons for punishment aren't we? ;)

Jimmy
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Re: Tweaked Tau Army for Review

By Froggage

David Gonzales wrote:

Been tweaking the Tau lists being batted around and came up with this:

Commander (joins big unit of Broadsides)
Twin/Linked Plasma
Shield Generator
Hardwired Drone Controller w/ 2x Shield Drones

3xBattle Suits w/ Plasma, Missile pods, Multi-Trackers

6 Fire Warriors

11 Kroot

11 Kroot

2 Piranhas w/ Fusion Blaster, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array

2 Piranhas w/ Fusion Blaster, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array

8 Pathfinders, Devilfish, Disruption Pods

1 Broadside w/ Team Leader, Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

1 Broadside w/ Team Leader, Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

3 Broadside w/ Team Leader, 3 ASS, Hard-Wired Target Lock, Hard-Wired Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

1491 Even

Reply:

If your commander is joining the big broadside unit why does he need drones too? Lose those, and give the other broadside units ASS. Also if your commander is hanging out with broadsides having TL Plasma and no Target Lock doesn't seem great. Ditch the shield generator, he has drones already.

I reread this and either your math is way off or you only have 3 elite crisis suits. WTF? Drop the piranhas to 1 each and get more suits. Drop one of the Broadside units and get more crisis suits. The bread and butter of this army should be the crisis suits.

I would also go with 2 units of 2 Broadsides both with ASS and a Target Lock rather than a unit of 3. You know who is going to take all the hate when you clump them like that, and it doesn't take but killing the 2 drones and you are leadershipping and could run off the board.

As is this army will kill a bunch of mech and then get reamed by whatever is inside. If you go second, you won't even get that far. Anything that is not mech/elite will eat your lunch.

Hopefully that wasn't too harsh and will help.
Jimmy
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Re: Dark Eldar

By Stelek

Joe Wrote:
> Alright, I started following your blog a couple of weeks ago. I like the straight talk and no nonsense that you put out; I'm like that too normally. Yeah, I follow BOLS too and the B&C but I take everyone's word with a grain of salt; kinda why I'm one of those people the State of Florida call "Non-Party Affiliated". Anyways, I started collecting Dark Eldar seriously this past November because I wanted the dark horse and something different from what was always being run at my store (all Marines, no Xenos) and am finally getting around to really working on my army, I've done the list building and such and think I've got something pretty workable...that I'd consider taking to 'Ard Boyz if I'd had more practice with the army, but I'm more comfortable with my Marines. Anyways, going through the Codex repeatedly and such I just can't figure why Dark Eldar are so scary and how they are effective. I've been at tournaments when they've won, didn't play them though. I hear about how great they are in close combat, but I just don't see it in the numbers.
>
> I see 3 good weapons" Dark Lances, Disintegraters, Blasters. Splinter weapons are effectively useless; their low strength make them about as effective at causing wounds as a squad of ork boys shooting. The Raiders go down to bolter fire (hence why Nightshields are great, reduce that rapid fire) and yes the spamming of Lances and 3x Dis Ravagers can lay the hurt on Mech and MEQ. Wyches 4+ inv in CC is almost as good as TH/SS termies, but with so many builds granting stubborn or fearless they just don't seem worth it. So while its easy for us to get a first round charge, why bother? Instead just fly around in our aluminum cans just outside of rapid fire range dropping our heavy weapons, what about all that cover?
>
> I'm thinking of using some Raider Squads and moving only 6" so I can fire everything inside, generally at the 12" range so I can rapid fire 8 guys or so. Most of the lists online I find recommend using the minimum number of guys in a Raider, whether Wych or Warrior and spam the Raiders. Is that all there is to the army? It just doesn't feel right. I like them for the fluff (what little there is) and I like being competitive but as I said, the numbers just don't feel like they can hold it up in anything.
>
> Why are Dark Eldar so scary?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joe
>
Reply:

You missed Shredders. S6 blasts are fun.

Wyches are ass in CC imo. Always have been.

You've got it correct, fly around on the skateboards of suck and shoot
the other guy to pieces is and always has been the best option for the
Dark Eldar.

The reason Dark Eldar are so scary...well, it's complicated.

1) Nobody knows them very well. Opponents see them so rarely, they
don't know how to defeat them.

2) Dark Eldar can be great in CC, against non-CC troops caught in the
open. They are markedly worse for wear against mech armies, and people
with cover busting weapons tend to shred Wyches. Changes to CC make DE
CC assaults a pejorative affair. Sure you killed the enemy, and then
what? You die to lasrifles. Hey good job stupid.

3) Avoiding CC and instead blowing enemies out of their transports with
mass lance fire then hitting them with wound on 2+ templates is
awesome. Negating many armies shorter reach weapons makes you very able
to fry the enemy without worrying much about return fire.

4) The Webway Portal. Combine this with mass cover, grotesques, and
general lack of long range shooting in many armies...and you have a
special day coming your way. Having an entire army pop out of reserve
in midfield and alpha strike you makes going first nearly meaningless.

Dark Eldar are scary just like Eldar are. They outclass most armies in
the ways that count. Always have.

Note that Dark Eldar do not have meltaweapons nor really any
flamers--but I still consider them an excellent army, unlike say Orks or
Chaos Demons, who are missing melta and don't have lances to make up for
it, nor lots of templates that can keep firing (unlike flamer units
which generally fire once, kill their target, and then in turn are
killed--hey good job stupid, go sit with the wyches, you're on a time out!).

Hope that explains things for you a bit better.

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Re: Eldar 1750pts

By Stelek

Josh Holt wrote:
HQ 
Farseer w/ Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Jetbike, Doom, Fortune, Mind War 
Warlocks x10 
  • all w/ Jetbikes 
    x3 w/ Destructor 
    x2 w/ Enbolden 
    x2 w/ Enhance

  • Eldrad (I wondering if he is out of place but I think he is a very good support unit for the army but comes with a huge price tag) 

    Troops 
    Guardian Jetbikes x6 w/ x2 Shuriken Cannons 
    Guardian Jetbikes x6 w/ x2 Shuriken Cannons 
    Guardian Jetbikes x3 (These stay in reserves and come on to contest or capture an objective towards the end of the game. 
    Rangers x5 w/ Pathfinders (Sit on an objective and pick off flamer templates and other things coming for my objective and are fortuned with their 2+ cover save) 

    Heavy Support 
    x3 Fire Prisms (I think these guys can do alot with the combo of the 3 plus Eldrad) 

    Point Total is 1749 

    Is it good or does it have some errors (I probably murdered this list... and not in a good way lol) ? I have heard good things of this type of list...
    Reply:

    Drop the small Guardian Jetbike unit, get more Rangers for that unit.

    The Prisms should have Shuricannons if at all possible.

    Eldrad is out of place.  Try Maugen Ra instead.  Yes, really.

    Drop Mind War, get both sets of Runes.

    Give it a whirl, report back!
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    Ravenwing: Death to Guard!

    By Stelek

    So, you're a Dark Angels player, are you?

    Everyone else has new Codex-itis.

    You are sick of being called the 'Gimp' Angels.

    Now the Guard are out, and it's disgusting!

    Fine, fine. Here, it's time you came into your own.

    2000 Pts - Dark Angels Roster - Ravenwing

    1 Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing @ 205 pts (...on Jetbike)
    1 ...on Jetbike (Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Jetbike; Krak Grenades;
    Power Armour; Raven Sword)
    1 Adamantine Mantle
    1 Iron Halo
    1 Jetbike (Plasma Cannon; Twin Linked Storm Bolters)

    1 Upgraded Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 410 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike;
    Land Speeder)
    5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5; Apothecary)
    1 Apothecary
    1 Narthecium
    1 Reductor
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
    Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
    1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)
    1 Land Speeder (Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter)

    1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 395 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike; Land
    Speeder)
    5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5)
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
    Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
    1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)
    1 Land Speeder (Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter)

    1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 395 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike; Land
    Speeder)
    5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5)
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
    Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
    1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)
    1 Land Speeder (Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter)

    1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 295 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike)
    5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5)
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
    Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
    1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)

    1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 295 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike)
    5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5)
    1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
    Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
    1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
    Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)

    Total Roster Cost: 1995

    Just pray you get to go first against any mech army.

    You can't reliably handle CC and hordes suck, but you will terrify every
    mech player on the planet.

    "Wait...all of that is scoring, and it all scouts?"

    Click here for more...

    Tuesday, July 14, 2009

    Re: Army Scaling help from one philly phan to another (40k related)

    By Stelek

    Jim Hogate wrote:

    Stelek,

    Thank you and your friends work on the blog. I am starting a series of campaigns for 40k with my friends that will involve different point levels. 1000, 1250, 1500, and so on all the way up to 2500. The army I use for 2500 will have to be built up from the 1000 point army I use. My question is about army scaling. Up and down. What is the general thought process in taking an army from 2k to 2.5k or from 1750 to 1.5k or even down to 1k? Should there be X amount of troops to Y amount of elites/fast attack/heavy?

    Thank you again for your help (and Fly Eagles! Fly!),

    Jim.

    Reply:

    At 1k, take whatever you want.  Just remember unless you like wasting money, buy things you'll use later.  Things like troops with anti-tank capability and transports.

    From 1750 down to 1.5k, you will jettison all toys and big nasty things immediately.

    To go up from 2k to 2.5k, you will immediately add all toys and big nasty things.

    At 1500, 2 troops is sufficient.  Above that, you want 3.  If your troops are actually GOOD, then by all means bring 4.

    Most are shit, due to bad GW design decisions.  So they are required but are a big hole in your wallet and your points available to spend on things that are actually fun to play with.

    Hope that helps.

    GO EAGLES!  =D
    Click here for more...

    Dark Elves

    By Stelek

    Steven Attoe wrote:

    Hi Stelek,

    Im an avid 40k player, and would probably pidgeon hole myself in the powergaming percentage of the population - however, i'd like to start playing Warhammer with a competative army that doesn't scream CHEESE.

    Here's the list that i put together, what do you think?

    Dreadlord - Armor of Eternal Servitude, Pendant of Khaeleth, Hand Weapon, Great Weapon, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield

    Death Hag - Cauldron of Blood

    Death Hag - Rune of Khaine, BSB, Banner of Hag Graef

    Noble - 2 Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Ring of Hotek

    20 Corsairs - Full Command, Extra Hand Weapon

    10 Crossbowmen

    10 Crossbowmen

    6 Harpies

    6 Harpies

    20 Black Guard - Full Command including Kouran

    2 Boltthrowers

    War Hydra

    My idea being that the BSB and Dreadloard ride with the Black Guard making a pretty darn unstoppable and hard hitting unit - the Dreadlord himself being pretty much invincible. The Corsairs will ride alongside them with the Noble. 20 Crossbowmen and 2 Throwers for ranged support and the Hydra is pretty much a no brainer.

    There are 2 things im unsure of - The army only has 2 blocks of hard hitting infantry, would this be detremental?

    Would it be worth combining the harpies so that after they have charged any warmachines, they still will have enough numbers to cause flank and rear denial.

    Thanks,
    Steve


    Reply:

    Too late?

    I'll give you my take on your line units--your army isn't horrible, but it's got some flaws behind the reasoning.

    Corsairs are flank and suicide units--they are not mainstay units. Shitty toughness plus shitty saves equals bad news for mainstay units.

    Black Guard are elite units, meant to be run in small units. They should have a little bit of padding, but they are basically a tarpit unit. They are very capable of doing lots of damage, but really...only on the charge. Even basic troops have a very good chance of fucking them up. Again with the shitty toughness and shitty saves issue.

    Personally, I think you should run double hydras or quad bolt throwers and if you think you can avoid being labeled cheesemeister by bringing both--try neither. Not sure how competitive it'll be then though.

    Just bringing a Cauldron will probably get you that moniker once you figure out how to use it.

    Anyway, take a look at my Dark Elf army. Note, you've chosen the wrong army to avoid being called funny names.

    Even built poorly, you have a decent chance of zapping many armies to death with the inkies.
    Click here for more...

    Re: Crimson Fists Drop pod army

    By Stelek

    Sven Natas wrote:
    After doing some reading today and the looks I got for how stupid my comment about not wanting to use special characters from when we were all talking on friday. I decided to look at some of them that are in the Space Marine Codex. Pedro is 100% the way I like playing my marines. How dose this list look to you? This is for August.

    Pedro Kantor

    3 squads of:
    10 Sternguard Veteran Squad: Bolter (x3);  Combi-Meltagun (x4); Heavy Flamer (x2)
          Sergeant: Bolter; Power Fist
          Drop Pod
    4 squads of:
    10 Tactical Squad: Bolter (x7); Flamer; Multi-Melta
          Drop Pod
    Reply:

    I can't give advice out for tournaments I'm running, maybe visitors can give you some feedback.  :)

    Sorry.
    Click here for more...

    Re: Making Eldar Wraith-stuff Work

    By Stelek

    Raptor1313 wrote:
    I'd swear I sent an e-mail back when you were working on the Guard codex, though I think it got lost in the internet's constituent tubes.
     
    That aside, I'm a fan of the sculpts of Wraithguard and Wraithlords, and I've been trying my damnedest to make them work for me.
     
    I'll start with the Wraithguard.  I like the durability; especially a 10-man unit with cover and Fortune up.  They're a solid core for the army, but my biggest problem is that they're just not that killy.  They fold to powerfists, and unless they can range in their amazing 12" guns, they don't do a ton.  8-10 wraithcannon can do a number on vehicles, at the least, and they can hold in assault if there are no powerfists, but I feel like they pretty much require a babysitter nearby to bail them out of an assault.  If they got bogged down in assault, they're not going to sit their T6 asses on an objective.
     
    Plus, they look cool.
     
    The last Wraithguard-centric army I ran at 1850 was...
     
    HQ
    Eldrad (210)
     
    Avatar (155)
     
    Troops
    10 Wraith Guard; Spiritseer w/ Conceal (396)
     
    8 Rangers (152)
     
    10 Dire Avengers (120)
    Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)
     
    10 Dire Avengers (120)
    Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)
     
    Heavy Support
    Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance, EML, 2 flamers (155)
     
    Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon (125)
     
    Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon (125)
     
    Total: 1848
     
    Basically, we have an objective camper with the Rangers, then the Wraith-stuff, Eldrad, and Avatar all band together while the tanks do what tanks do: Avengers put out anti-infantry fire, and prisms can hunt infantry/tanks if needs be.
     
    I suppose I could always drop the Avengers for Fire Dragons and beef up the tank-killing power, but that cuts down on the troops available.
     
    The other is the last time I tried to run triple Wraithlords.  I think it needs some tweaking, but here's what it looked like.
     
    Triple-Wraithlord Surprise
    HQ
    Avatar (155)
     
    Farseer w/ Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Guide, Doom (145)
     
    Elites
    6 Fire Dragons (96)
    Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)
     
    6 Fire Dragons (96)
    Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)
     
    Troops
    8 Rangers (152)
     
    10 Dire Avengers (120)
    Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)
     
    10 Dire Avengers (120)
    Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)
     
    Heavy Support
    Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance, EML, 2 flamers (155)
     
    Wraithlord w/ Scatter laser, EML, 2 flamers (135)
     
    Wraithlord w/ Scatter Laser, EML, 2 flamers (135)
     
    Total: 1849
     
    The problem I've had with it thus far is that the Wraithlords pretty much HAVE to hang around the Farseer's Wave Serpent (..since he is emphatically NOT walking solo...).  I've found that I just can't STAND an all-foot Wraith-list; I tried it a while, and it took one game of table quarters + the other guy putting his objective at the far back for me to say 'bugger this.'
     
    At any rate, your help and time is always appreciated.
    -Raptor1313

    Reply:

    Run Eldrad instead.  While the Avatar is cute, the only reason to take him is why you bring Creed in an IG army--to bolster an infantry heavy army.  Since you don't have one...

    Now if you want 3 Wraithlords, fine.  Just give up on Wraithguard.  Phil Kelly decided not to make them worth taking, so they aren't worth taking.

    Try this instead.

    1850 Pts - Eldar Roster - Wraith 1850

    1 Eldrad Ulthran @ 210 Pts

    5 Harlequin Troupe @ 178 Pts
       Fleet; Flip Belts; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Holo-Suit (H-S); Close Combat Weapon (x1); Harlequins Kiss (Hkiss) (x4); Fusion Pistol (Fp); Shuriken Pistol (x4); Hallucinogen Grenades
       1 Harle Shadow Seer @ [62] Pts
          Psyker;  Veil Of Tears ; Fleet; Flip Belts; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Holo-Suit (H-S); Harlequins Kiss (Hkiss); Fusion Pistol (Fp); Hallucinogen Grenades

    5 Fire Dragons @ 235 Pts
       Fleet; Fusion Gun (Fg); Melta Bombs
       1 Wave Serpent @ [155] Pts
          Energy Field (Wave Serpent); Spirit Stone (V:SpStn); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); TL Bright Lances (TL-BL)

    5 Fire Dragons @ 235 Pts
       Fleet; Fusion Gun (Fg); Melta Bombs
       1 Wave Serpent @ [155] Pts
          Energy Field (Wave Serpent); Spirit Stone (V:SpStn); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); TL Bright Lances (TL-BL)

    9 Pathfinders (Rangers) @ 216 Pts
       Fleet; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Stealth; Ignore Difficult Terrain; Pathfinder Stealth; Scouts; Pathfinders; Shuriken Pistol (Sp) (x9); Ranger Long Rifle (RLRifle)

    6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 207 Pts
       Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Turbo-boosters; Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Cannon (SCan) (x2); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x4)
       1 Warlock @ [55] Pts
          Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Psyker;  Destructor ; Turbo-boosters; Rune Armour (RAmr); Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x1)

    6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 207 Pts
       Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Turbo-boosters; Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Cannon (SCan) (x2); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x4)
       1 Warlock @ [55] Pts
          Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Psyker;  Destructor ; Turbo-boosters; Rune Armour (RAmr); Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x1)

    1 Wraithlord @ 120 Pts
       Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; WraithSight; Flamer (x2); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); Scatter Laser (SctL)

    1 Wraithlord @ 120 Pts
       Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; WraithSight; Flamer (x2); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); Scatter Laser (SctL)

    1 Wraithlord @ 120 Pts
       Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; WraithSight; Flamer (x2); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); Scatter Laser (SctL)

    Total Roster Cost: 1848

    Advance the Serpents as needed to deliver the Fire Dragons.  The Wraithlords are torrent units.  Think of them as slow Devilfish but with S6 weapons instead of 5, and you'll have your tactics down.

    Hide Eldrad with the Pathfinders, unless you fear them being run off then hide him with the Harlies.  The two units are mutually supporting.  With a couple fortunes you can reduce your opponents targets to:

    Wave Serpents, Fortuned Bikers behind cover, Wraithlord, and 2+ save Pathfinders.

    I think it's a good way to make the Wraithlords work.  You have Warlocks spread out in the army to make the Wraithlords not be retards.
    Click here for more...

    DoW II

    By Stelek

    So I finished up DOW II.

    My final impressions are:

    1) The last boss getting nuked by my orbital bombardments from my
    now-crashed cruiser was...silly and unsatisfying.

    2) I found the 'defend' missions quite fun, when I had it figured out
    on how to win those missions.

    3) Terminator armor came way too late in the game to be any fun.

    4) I've heard there is an Avatar and despite doing every mission
    possible, I never ran into it. Sad really. I'm sure obliterating it
    with an orbital bombardment to save me an hour of running in and out
    would have been awesome.

    Better than I expected when I sucked it up and gave it a try.

    Chaos Gate is still better.

    Click here for more...

    Now that's funny

    By Stelek

    Man, who thought the hacks would go this far. lol
    Click here for more...

    Monday, July 13, 2009

    New search

    By Stelek

    Since Edwin (and many others) are correct about how difficult it is to search the site, I added a new search tool. Kudos to John for doing (nothing) and motivating me (with an enrage timer of...months). ;)

    Let me know what you think.
    Click here for more...

    Edwin's Ard Boyz Battle Report - Game 1

    By Edwin

    If you are having trouble seeing the pictures, expand your browser a little, I don't want to make them so small that you can't see any details.

    If you have been reading other Ard Boyz posts on this blog, you may already know that I played at Dragon's Keep in Provo, Utah for the first Ard Boyz tournament.

    This is my first attempt at a battle report and hopefully it can give some insight on multiple things including list building, tactics and whatnot. Obviously any mistakes I make are made on purpose to prove some point because I'm the perfect tactician ;).

    For those who don't know the first mission in there Ard Boyz here's the run down:

    It's a generic 12" setup on the long table edges. There are 5 objectives, one is placed in the center and two are placed by the players in their own deployment zone and cannot be within 6" of the table edge or 12" of another objective. To get the full points for a Massacre you need to control more objectives than your opponent and also have more Kill Points. The first round is night fight and the game lasts 6 turns.

    My opponent was Thomas, you can see him on the left and he brought his Voodoo doctor Bill who you can see on the right.

    Here's the list he ran:

    3x Land Raider w/ extra armor and HK missile
    1x Land Raider Redeemer with multimelta
    2x 6 man assault termi squads with TH / SS
    1x 5 man assault termi squad with TH / SS
    2x 10 marines with melta and multimelta in a rhino with an HK missile
    1x 8 marines with nothing special
    Chaplain with terminator armor and some random stuff I can't remember

    Here's the List I ran:

    CCS with 3 meltas and an Astropath in a chimera with a hull HF
    2x Veteran squads with 3 meltas in a Chimera with hull HF and dozer blade
    2x IST squads with 2 meltas
    Hellhound with hull Multimelta and dozer blade
    2x squads of 3x Vendettas
    2x squads of 2x Leman Russes with hull HF
    1x squad of 2x Leman Russes with hull Lascannon

    Thomas won the roll and decided to go first.

    Here is a picture of Thomas' deployment:

    Picture 1

    On the far right is the LR Redeemer which contained the 5 man termi squad and the Chaplain. The next LR to the left contained one of the 6 man terminator squads and the one on the far left had the remaining terminator squad. The rhino in the center had the basic 8 man marine squad and the land raider and remaining rhino both had the remaining tactical squads in them.

    You can see the objectives outlined in Red and his troops are outlined in blue for reference.

    So having seen his deployment my plan was to deploy on the left side to quickly disable the far left land raider and force the far right land raiders to come at me. My plan was to use the battlecannons on my 6 leman russes to quickly kill the rhinos and troops inside of them and cripple his ability to capture objectives.

    Here you can see my deployment:

    Picture 2

    The person in red on the left is me posing with my Vendetta Wall. On the picture you can see both my vendetta squads preparing to scout move.

    There is a squad of Leman Russes off picture on the left hugging the edge of the terrain with a Vet chimera hiding behind them. The hope was that he would come be tempted to come at my LRs and I could sacrifice the squad of vets to strand that termi squad with chaplain across the board. If he chose to ignore them and rush for my objectives (which i placed 12" from each other int he center of my deployment), I could drive the Leman Russes forward and blow away troops.

    The LR squad with the lascannons was placed on the far right side of the picture and the other LR squad can be seen near the center. The remaining vet squad and ccs were waiting behind the building to jump out when needed. The hellhound is near them ready to rush forward and start causing havoc. I was willing to sacrifice both vet squads to cripple the LR because I was confident my 6 battlecannons could deal with a few rhinos and marines.

    Picture 3

    This picture better shows my deployment, the Vendetta squad scouted forward exactly 12" from the Land Raider to drop the IST in one of them on the Lander Raider and block movement on his next turn. The other Vendetta squad just repositioned slightly to be as far as possible to the left.

    Picture 4

    Here is the damage done during Thomas' first turn. He drove the LRR on the far right directly forward and his shots bounced off my LR squad. He opted to only drive his rhinos slightly forward and pop off some HK shots. The other 3 LR decided to just stand there and take shots at me. He rolled high enough for all of his squads to see me through the night fight. He then proceeded to wreck all 3 of my Vendettas who scouted forward. My fancy photoshop work should help show where things moved and what died.

    Picture 5

    I expected my opponent to drive quickly at me so the termies could get out and devour my army, so this lack of movement was pretty surprising. I moved the Hellhound forward and gave it cover from the right side of the field using the downed Vendetta. The Chimera ran behind the building as to not be brought down. The IST's from the wrecked Vendetta moved back towards the building and closer to the objective. My Vendettas moved forward slightly so I could actually get a shot off through the night fight. I managed to totally fail all might night fight rolls and did nothing with shooting.

    Picture 6

    His LRR decided to move only 6" and take shots from the MM and the AC at my Leman Russes. The two center LR only moved forward 6" and took shots with their LC at my Land Raiders (taking out one battlecannon and my remaining Vendetta Squad, destroying two lascannons from 1.

    My Vendettas moved up slightly to give my Leman Russes on the left room to move into a position where I could target the Rhino hiding in the building on the objective. They failed to do anything.

    The CCS moved up behind the trees to punch a hole in any Land Raiders that decided to move forward if he ever planned to. It popped smoke. The Vendettas shot at the leftmost Land Raider managing to destroy the right lascannon. Both the center squad of russes and the right squad shot at the rhino that rushed up the center. I managed to stun it. The rightmost Vet squad moved a bit to the left to get in better position to hit whichever LR zoomed forward, it also popped smoke.

    The Hellhound got in half range of the LR its pointing at and missed.

    Picture 7

    Sorry about the horrible blur on this picture. He moved his Redeemer forward 12" this turn but for some reason that eludes me, he didn't charge me with the termis inside of it (maybe he took the advice of "don't get out of your transport" to heart). It fired and did nothing with the multimelta.

    The other two LR both moved 6" and turned toward my Vendettas in an attempt to take them down. The rhino which I stunned had extra armor and quickly moved back out of danger. The Land Raider proceeded to destroy 1 more Vendettas.

    Picture 8

    The pictures are somewhat overlapping because I forgot to take one.

    On my turn I moved the Hellhound over to the other LR because I wanted to make sure and have a 12" move to be hit on 6's. Everything else stood still. I shot the hellhound and immobilized the LR. My LR on the right moved forward to block the LRR and to get a side shot on the retreating rhino. I managed to destroy its weapon ,whoopee. The Vendetta lascannons once again bounced off of the Land Raider.

    My vets on the right decided to get the fuck out of there since everything I have is failing to actually do damage and the survival of my troops is looking bleak. The other Vet squad rushes forward next to the CCS.

    Picture 9

    The LRR decided to go through terrain and ignore my Russes. The other Land Raider moved forward 6" and took a las shot at my Russ squad doing nothing. The leftmost LR fired at my Vendettas and managed to take another one down. The middle LR did shot one shot at the Vendetta and one at the Hellhound, it failed to do anything.

    In this picture you can see my LR moving another 6" forward to get close to the opponents objective and to take more shots at that seemingly invulnerable rhino.

    Picture 10

    Lots of Action in this picture. I moved my hellhound 12" again waiting for him to finally get out of that LR and charge. I fired at the LR and shook it. The CCS moved to point blank range of the LR and unloaded its cargo who then used Bring it Down to fire 3 meltas at the Land Raider, I once again failed to do anything, stunned, shaken, shaken, grats me.

    The left Vet squad moved forward to hopefully jump the LR holding troops and the other Vet squad moved back to safety. The Russes in the center moved forward to shoot the rhino... again. I shot both Leman Russ squads and by some miracle I managed to immobilize it again finally getting me my first kill of the game, the troops pile out. Once again the Russes on my left side failed to do anything to that rhino hiding in the building and my Vendetta bounced off the Land Raider in the center again.

    Picture 12

    Turn 5

    On his turn, Thomas finally unloaded his termis in the immobilized LR and charged my Hellhound, managing to shake it. The troops who got blown out their rhino moved and then ran onto the objective. The troop containing LR moved forward onto the objective. The LRR moved off the hill and shot at my Chimera, doing nothing. The LR that I failed to melta to death unleashed its termis who promptly destroyed my CCS and the Chimera and consolidated into the trees.

    The IST squad you see moving on the bottom left got out last turn but I don't want to go back and photo-shop it in.

    Picture 13

    In this action packed picture, you can see my scramble to minimizing the losses. The Vendetta on the Left moves 12" to get in range of contesting an objective. The IST's both run closer to the objectives. The Vet squad near the center unloads and moves towards the objective while their Chimera valiantly forms its portion of the wall keeping his crap away from my objectives.

    The Russes split up to form a barrier just small enough so the LR can't fit and the termis would have to go through terrain to get to me. The Vet squad on the table edge moves their chimera back to the semi-safe objective. The Leman Russes on the Right move up 6" and shoot down 7 of the 8 Marines remaining in the trees on the objective. The hellhound moves 18" right behind the LR in preparation to contest objectives on the last turn.

    The Russ Squad on the Left fires into the rhino behind the building and manages to stun, immobilize, destroy its weapon and something else denoted by the 4th counter, ya... it's still alive. Here's a pic of its invincible glory:

    Picture 14

    So here comes the last turn, our last efforts to grab objectives and get as many Battle Points as possible:

    Picture 15

    His troops back in the building get out and destroy my Hellhound and the immobile LR takes out my last Vendetta. His two middle LR decided to try and take out my Russes. Inexplicably, the troop one moved off the objective so he no longer contested it. The LRR moves up 1" away from both my Russes (the dice denote the Russe's position) and close enough to contest the objective. The las LR take down one more of my Russes and shake the other one. The Termis in the trees charged the Chimera and took it out. Random H.bolter fire hit my IST's and i went to ground.

    Picture 16

    Heres my last turn and attempt to grab less of a loss. The LR moves out of the way (note its out of coherency with my other one which is totally cheating and I didn't notice until looking through these pics later) to give room for the Vets and stuff. Had I not been cheating they would have moved along the blue line.

    The remaining mounted vets moved up 12" and unloaded in hopes I might take out the Raider and later hurt the guys inside (fat chance). The other Vets also moved forward 6" to get their meltaguns in range. A searing volley of 5 short range meltas go out to the Raider, 4 hit, 3 pen, it's still alive. The Russ on the far right side zooms forward 6+d6" and I manage to roll a 6 and get in range to contest that objective.

    The far left Russes take shots at the now-unloaded marine squad and down all but 4 and they don't run away :(.

    In the end, we each had 1 objective, the other 2 were contested and the middle one had no troops on it. It ended up in a minor victory (13) points for Thomas and a minor loss (7 pts) for me because we had equal objectives but he had more KP

    POST GAME ANALYSIS:

    Thomas is primarily a fantasy player and quickly admits that 40k is just not his game. This happens to be his first ever 40k win, I'm honored. That can be seen by some of his tactics. Had he ran forward from the start with all of his termis, he would have quickly torn through my army and gotten a massacre.

    My inability to roll well at times was certainly proven in this game where the only vehicle destroyed was because I immobilized an already immobilized and weaponless RHINO. I had plenty of penetrating results but never managed to actually destroy any of the vehicles, it was rather irritating. I have to say im proud of myself for not freaking the fuck out when my luck is so horrible like I might otherwise.

    At first I thought the scout Vendetta move may have been a mistake but it was only a mistake because Thomas opted to shoot me rather than move forward and crush me horirbly. I stand by the idea that the scout move is worthwhile if he had played his army more effectively. In the end a lot of events on both sides would have shifted the game around (me moving 12" with the Russ, him managing to kill 2 of my contesting vehicles, him moving off the center objective, different things not running away, etc.) which just goes to show how big a difference some things can make when it comes to a tournament. In fact, on his next game, Thomas went from a win to a loss on the last turn because two of his terminator squads ran off the table.

    Overall I think my initial tactic was rather sound but not being able to roll statistically against his Land Raiders is what really destroyed my ability to pull out a massacre. Thomas was fun to play against and the one rules debate we had was resolved fairly quickly (can't go back and re-move stuff after you have moved on to other units), if you haven't figured it out by now, his brother Bill is a Voodoo Doctor because he "blessed" Thomas' dice at the beginning of the game and I'm sure he had some hand in my inability to kill vehicles.
    Click here for more...

    Debate: MrPants vs Stelek

    By Stelek

    Email in from MrPants:

    I'm concerned about the way you're going about criticizing the tournaments other stores are running. I can't comment on End Zone cause I've never been there, but I know from my time down at DK last year that they at least cared about people having a good time. Maybe things have changed over the last year, but the 'Ard Boyz at DK was a hell of a lot better run than the 'Ard Boyz at MG. The problem I see with your comments is they come across as personal attacks whether they are or not. How is that a good thing? It's not likely to get them to change. If anything, it'll put them on the defensive and cause them to ignore your suggestions which are good for the tournament scene. I also worry that the way you come across online may be keeping people away from MG as casual players and from the tournaments. Not even the last 40k tournament was full ,and fantasy and FOW are a joke right now. I honestly thought twice about going to the first tournament you ran because I wasn't sure what to expect based on some of your past... "exploits." I can see some people being hesitant to attend if they think they'll end up being mocked and criticized if they don't get everything exactly right with their list building and rules knowledge (which does tend to happen on the blog at times).

    I understand your points and I agree with the vast majority of them, but can't you be more constructive with your criticism? The tone of your posts would put me off from anything you had to say if I didn't know you in person and have experience with your tournament system. I think you need to work with the other tournament organizers in Utah to improve the scene around here rather than making these accusations that aren't going to make you any friends in the other stores. Even if they agree with your points, they're likely to close ranks against you which isn't going to do anyone any good.

    Anyway, just something from someone who's opinion might have at least a little value for you. Less 40k makes me sad. More makes me happy (and more FOW players on the weekends would make me REALLY happy). I can do without more fantasy, but maybe Jon will be less disruptive if he happens to get more games in.


    Reply:

    How long have I been attending shitty tournaments in Utah? A decade? More than that?

    I got so sick of it, I decided to spend my own time and figure out how to run a decent tournament so others wouldn't have to suffer through my misery.

    I have emailed exactly how I run tournaments including scenarios, excel files, and lengthy descriptions on how best to handle conflicts and rules issues to every stores listed email address in the whole state.

    Two responses were:

    "Thanks, but this is too complicated for our players."

    "Who the hell are you to tell us how to run a tournament? Fuck off."

    Am I supposed to be responsible for other stores tournaments as well? Should I help them create a community willing to build terrain, improve their gameplay, teach them the rules, and then show up to run their tournaments too?

    How about I do enough. If I put the info on this site and they ignore it, and we go and their tournament still sucks ass--I should just let them piss right on me?

    I volunteer a huge amount of my time to try and help everybody, but if the TO's won't help themselves--I cannot make them.

    I guess I could just donate money to their obviously impoverished operations (which is why they've all been in business for a decade) and pray they figure out ANY of the following (you tell me which is the worst):

    Bad customer service = bad place to game.

    Felt is not terrain.

    Letting store employees win prizes while working at the store could also be bad.

    Having terrain made from coffee cans and necromunda bits (helloooo '91 nice to see you again...oh wait, it's not) isn't really condusive to playing the game.

    Giving prizes to store employees on the clock is possibly a 'bad' thing.

    Letting cheaters win prizes, period--let alone not kicking them out.

    Giving max points to late people so they win the tournament.

    Randomly assigning players to opponents, by such fun contrivances as 'everyone move to the next table, and play that guy'.

    "I'm not working, so let me play my game." AKA Bad Customer Service.

    Should I go on?

    I'm not putting up with shitty service--we are these stores bread and butter, and they can't even be bothered to put together a decent tournament the ONE time a year it fucking rolls around?

    Fuck that man.

    I'd like to note I only agreed to run FOW and Fantasy for Courtney, Walker, Nate, Eric, and Brandon. Their attendance at those events was nonexistent, so I won't be running them again next year.

    As far as driving people away--since I don't publish players lists nor criticize what they did in my tournaments, I don't know why people would get the impression I'm going to take their list and put it up on the fucking internet along with a picture of them, their army, and their mom for posterity in my 'this guys a noob' column. That isn't what I do, and if you think I am stopping people from coming into the store I can stop coming in on the weekends and you can have a lovefest with all the people who are avoiding me.
    Click here for more...

    Sunday, July 12, 2009

    My First Contest...

    By Stelek

    Update: Entries are no longer accepted. Thanks for all the submissions. :)



    Small update:

    If your email address starts with the following, would you kindly resubmit your entry?

    The google form + docs failed, and your submissions are condensed into an unreadable mishmash.

    pbfanattic
    dmcgr19800
    tjbalt
    realgenius
    Drkmorals
    jvtaylor3
    tstussi06

    Thanks a bunch!

    Post will be Stickied until July 12th.
    Click here for more...

    Dragon's Keep

    By Stelek

    Anonymous said...

    "It's a place for local players to get their local store owners to help them cheat their way to 'victory'."

    This is a horrible thing to imply that anyone did, much less someone you have never met. I would like to know how you can imply that any local player at DK got the local store owner to cheat for them.

    From my understanding, this is how the tournament was run:

    1st round - All random matchups. I was upstairs watching the guy use his Ipod "shaking" dice roller to determine the matchups. Played someone not from the keep.

    2nd round - Top points played against top points. All the people on the top tables had massacres the game previous. In fact, I played someone I regularly play at the Keep who had a massacre the previous round. Prevented him from getting into the top 3 by getting a massacre against him.

    3rd round - #1 played #2, #3 played #4, etc. Played someone not from the Keep.

    If the players from your group included a Tau player, an Eldar player and one more, then I met them. Tried to talk to them after the second round only to get the cold shoulder and watch them refuse to talk to me. I tried to be friendly, but I got the distinct impression that they thought they were better than me.

    Tbh, I check this blog ALL the time. I enjoy your articles and strats. I really didn't expect this kind of ignorance from you.

    -Steven (Tau player at DK)

    Reply:

    That was a generic comment, not directed at you--it was directed at Endzone, where it does happen. Plus countless other shops. Why don't you call trade sales and ask what is the final determination for winners at local shops? Right, it's the owner of said shop. Bitch all you want, but that's trade sales official policy. It's lame. Just like the Ard Boyz aren't 'Hard' at all.

    1st Round: Lovely. This the same crowd who handled the tournament so well that half the guys who came down to test the waters decided to stay away from fuckup central? Why yes, it is. In case you missed it and want to vent your righteous indignation, please read this and explain how DK is awesome, but do it slowly. I didn't get it the first time around.

    2nd Round: Lovely. Maybe you should not have someone who has NEVER played 40k, not run the ard boyz. Just a thought, k? Read the Ard Boyz rules. See that bit about not playing people you play locally? So if MG had 2 massacres, and DK had 2 massacres--why did they play each other? Right, a shitty ref. Most good TO's make announcements like 'is anyone playing each other that came together' and change things up.

    3rd round: Neat. I'm assuming several of the following changed their attitudes:

    1) Starting at 3pm. Taking 3 hours (plus) to finish each game.

    2) Having a guy not know how to play the game, running the tournament.

    3) Out of all the massacres in round 1, it's amazing two of three MG players were matched up.

    Not sure what kind of ignorance I'm putting out, if you'd kindly explain how me ranting at two stores at once confused you makes me ignorant?
    Click here for more...

    Mech Orks redux

    By Stelek

    "Anonymous said...

    "Tools. "Mech Orks" winning any tournament is a fucking joke."

    Battlewagon orks win a hell of a lot of tournaments in the uk, and have done since the 08 ukgt.

    Hopefully this will change as people mech up and take more melta"

    Reply:

    I've only been talking about how to run proper mech lists for well over a year. If you can't afford 3 fucking rhinos to mech your army up in that time frame, you deserve the disdain I am giving out in droves today.
    Click here for more...

    Gatti

    By Stelek

    Man, Gatti got himself dead. =|

    Sigh. He was the closest thing to a real life Rocky.

    Damn.
    Click here for more...

    Why Ard Boyz Sucks

    By Stelek

    This is not a no-holds-barred competition.

    It's a place for local players to get their local store owners to help them cheat their way to 'victory'.

    As I expected, both local places running the Ard Boyz had major shenanigans going on.

    One store had their 'we are manpussies and can't play without big huge fucking walls to block LOS so demons don't suck' foot high walls up. Hey Endzone, you really need to figure out 5th edition is here. Don't know the rules, and judges seemed to be in short supply again when needed. Do you guys realize yet that running big tournaments actually requires effort, and it's not a 'for the locals' thing like you do every weekend (there's a reason only your locals show up).

    The other store had a TO who has never played 40k in his life running the event, and yes this was the same guy who on his first day ran the last 'tournament'. I find it very amusing that despite the Ard Boyz rules saying players who come together should not play together, that people from my store had to. So instead of MG taking all 3 spots, they only took 2. We only sent 3 guys down. Amazingly enough, DK 'top' player with his flamer battlesuits gets to go. So Dragon's Keep, you also fail.

    Ard Boyz, epic fail.
    Click here for more...

    Doing better....

    By Stelek

    It's not really that 'deep' of a thought, but at least telling the idiots the obvious (hey mech is in!) is something good to see.

    When facing meltaguns, all vehicles are the same.

    So spamming Speeders, Dreads, Rhino bunkers, and Predators or LR; well, it's nothing 'new'. The real difference is, tactical marines don't suck when they get out of their transports and veterans do. Been a lot of mega-mech builds for a very long time. Having 20 tanks in an IG army is not a good thing, imo.

    Oh and a shout out to Darkwynn, who is apparently a moron.

    Huh Mech list were not that great in 4th edition. They worked well in some armies.

    in 5th edition they have been better with the way codex's have changed over time and subtle rule changes such as emergency disembark and so forth.

    Black Templar were great as a mechanized list but stronger as a Foot slonger list.

    Orks were better hoarde list but could do just as great as a mechanized list.

    Regular marines were not that great as mechanized till the new codex.

    Dark eldar only way to play was mechanized

    Tau only way to play was mechanized

    Chaos were not great mechanized till 5th edition.

    Sorry but YTTH sometimes has some decent ideas and I can agree with some of the tactics but a lot of the list they build are not strong nor great by any means.


    Thanks for pointing it out, Greg. ;)
    Click here for more...

    Re: Anti-Mech Orks

    By Stelek

    Josh Holt wrote:
    > Hey Stelek,
    >
    > I have a request/challenge for you. I was wondering if you could make
    > an Anit-mech ork army for 1500 and 2000pt games. It should be able to
    > take down mech armies that are anything short of a Land Raider Spam.
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    > Josh
    Reply:

    Is this even a question?

    Bring Lootas. All of them.

    And Kannons. All of them.

    Tada. Still not good anti-mech but it's decent.

    Raiders and Russes will still own your face.

    Unless you can cheat and get your deffrollas to work, then woo good times.

    Click here for more...

    Re: Some Questions From Newbs

    By Stelek

    Mathew Kreideweis wrote:
    > Hey Stelek,
    >
    > My girlfriend and I recently got into 40k and are building our first
    > armies and we had some questions for you, mostly about SM (what I'm
    > playing) and Eldar (what she is playing). I'm sorry in advance if
    > this is a little long.
    >
    > Space Marine Questions:
    > 1) It seems like SM players tend to favor Rhinos. Are there any
    > advantages to playing Razorbacks instead? Just looking at the codex,
    > 5 points and only carrying 6 seems like a small price to pay for extra
    > firepower, especially in low point games (<= 1000 points). Just want
    > your thoughts on the advantages to razorbacks and when they should be
    > taken, if any.
    >
    > 2) I have a list that I'm shooting for at 1000 points (what she and I
    > currently play based on our miniatures at the moment) based on your
    > 'Best of...' list. Does it have any glaring issues? The list is:
    >
    > HQ:
    > 1xLibrarian, Null Zone, Might (100)
    >
    > Troops:
    > 1x Tactical Squad, Flamer, MM, Melta Bombs, Rhino (205)
    > 1x Combat Squad, Melta Bombs, Razorback (130)
    >
    > Elite:
    > 1xDreadnought, Heavy Flamer, MM (115)
    > 1xDreadnought, Heavy Flamer, MM (115)
    >
    > Fast attack:
    > 1xLand Speeder, Heavy Flamer, MM (70)
    > 1xLand Speeder, Heavy Flamer, MM (70)
    > 2xAttack Bike, 2xMM (100)
    >
    > Heavy Support:
    > 1x Predator, Heavy Bolters (85)
    >
    > 1000pts even
    >
    > Eldar Questions:
    > 1) We noticed that Wraithguard can be taken as a troop choice if you
    > upgrade the Warlock to a Spiritseer and were wondering how effective
    > they are. They seem like a decent unit, especially given Eldar's
    > other choices, but will likely be a bit pricey when compared to the
    > other choices.
    >
    > 2) Do you have any advice for trying to convert Jetbike seer councils?
    > We are aware that they are strong and sound fun, but we are
    > relatively new to modeling and have avoided creating one because of
    > our lack of experience. If you had some insight on what models to get
    > and/or what pieces to look for that'd be very helpful.
    >
    > 3) We have been struggling with coming up with a decent configuration
    > at our relatively low point limits, and could use your advice on a
    > 1000 and maybe 1500 point list for Eldar. We have checked out your
    > 'best of...' lists, but have had some trouble fitting the necessary
    > pieces into the low point values. A note here: We are trying to avoid
    > creating Jetbike Seer Council just yet, because we are relative
    > novices at converting (see question 2), so it would be appreciated if
    > the 1000pt list didn't include them if possible.
    >
    > General:
    > 1) It seems like the Line of Site rule leaves a little room for
    > interpretation. What I mean is that if I build a model on top of a
    > 1/4in layer of extra basing stuff, they would be able to see over
    > hills, etc. that the standard models would not. What is the general
    > rule here? It seems to us that you should check LOS from a standard
    > base + model height and not the 'eyes of the model' like the rulebook
    > seems to suggest. What is the general guideline here, from a
    > tournament rules perspective?
    >
    > Thanks so much for the blog and advice. It has helped us and some
    > friends immensely so far in understanding different aspects of the
    > game. We especially like the battle reports, gives us a lot of insight
    > into your thought processes. Thanks again!
    >
    > --
    > Matt
    Reply:

    You're welcome. :)

    Lots of questions, starting from the top:

    Marines:

    1) Low point games are where they excel, but the weapon upgrades cost
    too much so those will need to be a key focus of your army if you intend
    to have them at higher points values. i.e. spam them or don't bring them.

    2) There are no glaring issues at 1k points, because it isn't an army
    yet. I'd probably go with another Pred over the 2 MM AB in that list
    though.

    Eldar:

    1) They are expensive money and points wise. While they are certainly
    'better' than they used to be, they still do not stop terminators.
    Until they do, they are meh. Especially since you can't mount them or
    deep strike them. They have a place in an Iyanden army, but are overall
    just a big target. Admittedly one that's hard to get rid of, but
    dedicated CC units will see them off.

    2) I posted my seer council. Dark Elf Cold One Riders + Jetbikes =
    Seer Council. Froggage built them, so any advice would have to come
    from him. Doesn't seem that difficult but I wouldn't know.

    3) For 1k Eldar, DA in Serpents, FD in Serpents, Fire Prisms...and for
    1.5k, add more troops and Vypers. Going full Mechdar isn't a bad thing,
    after all.

    General:

    1) If you build ALL of your army on raised bases, nobody will really
    care. If you build your heavy weapon guys on raised bases, that's
    cheating. Simple as that. You use the actual model LOS. I have run
    into people who use 'lowered' models they converted, and I treat them as
    if they were the same size model as that is also cheating. Modeling to
    gain an advantage is cheating, always.

    Again, glad to help! :)

    Click here for more...

    Re: Combined Arms?

    By Stelek

    Elias Lindqvist wrote:
    Hey Stelek!
    The usual praising and thanking for your work, followed by another lemming-train "help me with my list please?"
     
    You got it.
     
    Ive always had a crush on the mix and match forces of the Inquisition, but despite giving great opportunites for some awesome converting and painting ive always found it hard to make a competitive list since I always seem to choose units from my heart rather than my head.
     
    I would very much like to see how you would put together a "combined arms" force of the Imperium.
    Grey Knight Terminators in Valkyries/Vendettas? Space Marine bikers with Rhino-spamming Stormtroopers?
     
    Cheers
    /Trukson
    Reply:

    I've put several up already.

    Here and here.

    SM do not really need Inq but I guess you could add one unit for deep strike defense.

    GKT in Valk's is a fine use of those guys.

    Do either of the above armies appeal?

    What is it you are looking for?

    Mech or foot?
    Click here for more...

    Ard Boyz Deffrollas?

    By Stelek

    According to trade sales, Deffrollas are not an exception to the Ard Boyz rules.

    So if your local Ork players got a pass, it's because of your TO being a manpussy.

    Just fyi.
    Click here for more...

    Oh before I forget

    By Stelek

    Every time I see you post some stupid shit, I'm going to critique it bushido.

    You are, of course, welcome to post here.

    I'm not a manpussy.

    "Sorry, you have been blocked from commenting on this site."

    Sorry, disqus sucks and doesn't actually block an IT guy from posting on your site.

    Just thought I'd make myself clear--since you guys started being a bunch of big babies over the AB thing, I hope my 'cronies' plague your threads until the end of time.
    Click here for more...